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BRunner
Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 705 Location: Czech Republic
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:41 am Post subject: |
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BRunner wrote:
Orio wrote: |
Very simple to explain the advantage:
Distagon 15mm on full frame:
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Distagon 15mm on APS-C:
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very illustrative explanation Orio! _________________ .: APO-Maniac :. |
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dok
Joined: 03 Jun 2011 Posts: 34 Location: France
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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dok wrote:
The big viewfinder is one hell of a good reason, especially when talking about manual focusing. |
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Olivier
Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 5077 Location: France
Expire: 2015-08-06
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Olivier wrote:
Orio, did you crop a FF picture to APS-C size to show the crop factor is not in favour of Apsc dslrs ?
What about the IQ ?
It would be very interesting to see the difference between a FF and an APS-C, especially with such a great lens as your Distagon.
I read that APS-C Dslrs are less demanding with optical quality of lenses than Full Frame Dslrs.
Do you confirm ?
If so, would it be an advantage for other formats than FF when using MF lenses ?
_________________ Olivier - Moderator
Dslr : Olympus Pen E-P2 - Fujifilm X-Pro2 - Canon 5D MkII.
SLr and MF lenses : for feedback and helping people, cameras and lenses I own : full list here http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1442740.html#1442740 |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Olivier wrote: |
Orio, did you crop a FF picture to APS-C size to show the crop factor is not in favour of Apsc dslrs ? |
yes
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What about the IQ ? |
IQ is always better in a full frame camera, due to the larger sensor area.
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It would be very interesting to see the difference between a FF and an APS-C, especially with such a great lens as your Distagon. |
I can make a comparison if you like.
But I already know the result: the 5D Mark II image will be cleaner.
Quote: |
I read that APS-C Dslrs are less demanding with optical quality of lenses than Full Frame Dslrs.
Do you confirm ?
If so, would it be an advantage for other formats than FF when using MF lenses ? |
That is not something that depends on the sensor format, if not indirectly.
Lenses have a resolvance power, which is their limit. Sensors do, too.
So the resulting image will always be quality matched to the lowest common denominator, as mathematic professors taught us
In other words, the resolvance of the image will never be superior to the lower resolvance limit between the camera and the lens.
With most digital cameras (except for the super big ones like the new Nikon D800) lenses' resolvance often exceeds the resolvance of the sensor.
This unless you are using a really junk lens wide open
So generally speaking, and with only a few exceptions, there will be no advantage in using a lower resolution camera with your manual lenses.
On the contrary, the better S/N ratio of full frame cameras will make all lenses look better, including the less resolving lenses.
Of course, sharpness is not only dependant on resolvance. It also depends on acutance (micro-contrast), which is the most important factor in a typical small print format.
Tests have proven that a lens with great resolvance but moderate micro-contrast looks worse in small print photo than a lens with great micro-contrast and moderate resolvance.
This is the reason why most people sharpens like crazy (and some beyond the reasonable) when resizing pictures - they get the thrill of the lens looking better than it actually is
There are lenses - the first example that comes to my mind is that of Macro-Revuenon lenses - that have average resolvance but excellent micro-contrast.
These lenses in small prints usually look better than lenses with high resolvance but moderate micro-contrast (such as some uncoated pre-war lenses).
Of course if you print 70x100 centimeters, brute resolvance begins to make more sense... _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Olivier
Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 5077 Location: France
Expire: 2015-08-06
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Olivier wrote:
Thank you Orio.
Orio wrote: |
So generally speaking, and with only a few exceptions, there will be no advantage in using a lower resolution camera with your manual lenses.
On the contrary, the better S/N ratio of full frame cameras will make all lenses look better, including the less resolving lenses.
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That confirms what I felt looking at my 40D and 5D MkII pictures.
I was surprised by journalists' comments saying that 5D MkII is demanding higher quality lenses because that was not my impression when using my oldies. _________________ Olivier - Moderator
Dslr : Olympus Pen E-P2 - Fujifilm X-Pro2 - Canon 5D MkII.
SLr and MF lenses : for feedback and helping people, cameras and lenses I own : full list here http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1442740.html#1442740 |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Olivier wrote: |
I was surprised by journalists' comments saying that 5D MkII is demanding higher quality lenses because that was not my impression when using my oldies. |
Probably journalists did refer to the crappiest autofocus lenses that you can find around for 50-100 Euros _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Olivier
Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 5077 Location: France
Expire: 2015-08-06
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Olivier wrote:
Orio wrote: |
Olivier wrote: |
I was surprised by journalists' comments saying that 5D MkII is demanding higher quality lenses because that was not my impression when using my oldies. |
Probably journalists did refer to the crappiest autofocus lenses that you can find around for 50-100 Euros |
YES ! _________________ Olivier - Moderator
Dslr : Olympus Pen E-P2 - Fujifilm X-Pro2 - Canon 5D MkII.
SLr and MF lenses : for feedback and helping people, cameras and lenses I own : full list here http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1442740.html#1442740 |
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hexi
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 Posts: 1631 Location: France
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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hexi wrote:
Simply because there's no crop factor for me. And the viewfinder, as well. _________________ Happy owner and user of :
SLR's > Contax Aria - RX
DSLR > Canon 5D
Lenses : C/Y Planar 1.4/50 - Distagon 2.8/35 - Planar 1.4/85
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sonnar85 |
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saltese
Joined: 05 Aug 2011 Posts: 9
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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saltese wrote:
I don't use full frame, but I do use a 1.3x crop (which is closer than my first DSLR). Two reasons, the primary one being a bigger viewfinder, which was enough that I'd have switched just for that reason. Secondarily, I have collected a number of manual focus 24-35mm lenses, but don't have many 14-20mm manual lenses, to get a "wide" angle one needs something in that range on a 1.5x crop. I don't use a lot of super wides, so my existing collection works well enough for me, on a 1.3x crop, and leaves the option of getting one of those Samyang 14mm if I decide to experiment a little. |
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