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Wanted: high resolution 100mm lens with >= 90mm image cir
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:42 pm    Post subject: Wanted: high resolution 100mm lens with >= 90mm image cir Reply with quote

Hello forum,

My name is Christian. I was looking for a specific kind of lens and found many good sources of information in this forum, which is why I decided to join and pose my question to you, hoping that somebody might have a suggestion.

I am looking for a high resolution barrel lens with a focal length of 100-105mm. No shutter is needed. Aperture should be f/8 or larger, f/9 would be OK if performance does not require much further closing of aperture. Variable aperture is strongly prefered, but fixed aperture lenses are not excluded. The lens must cover an image circle of 90mm or more. No requirements regarding mount, M39 is just one of many possibilities. Images to be taken are at infinity or min 3m away in VIS spectrum. Flange distance is critical, therefore >= 100mm would come in handy.

If somebody has any suggestions, even as a starting point, I would appreciate them.

Best wishes,
Christian


PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost all enlarging lenses of 105mm should give you a 90mm usable image circle.
These are usually f/4.5 or f/5.6
When stopped down to f/8 they should be quite sharp even for infinity use.
Mount thread will vary but most European ones will be M39, some are M32-34

As for price - well, how sharp do you really need it to be?


PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite a few Novoflex and Schneider heads (usually f/5.6) meet the required specs. How sharp does it need to be, and what are your flange distance requirements?


PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enlarging lenses are my current first choice as they are widely available. I've been looking at the 90mm apo rodagon and the 105mm componon-s as possible choices, but they all are said to be designated to be used at near field. Do they perform well at f8 and infinity?
I've got a flange distance of about 100mm to cover, the exact distance might change depending on lens construction and way of adaption. Resolution wise, I expect it to beat the Pentax 67 105mm f2.4 and ideally be on par with the Pentax 67 75mm f2.8 AL.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks aoleg for the hint, the 100mm apo-digitar looks very interesting. I'll watch the used market.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds like quite a high standard.
At f/8 I think we are looking at @70 lpmm
You are probably best off with a proper large format lens for infinity use.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 100mm APO Digitar is a telephoto formula and possibly needs a back focus of considerably less than 100mm for infinity.
Best to ask Schneider.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the sharpest lenses I know of (and have) is the Leitz Focotar II f5.6/100mm (Leica thread mount = M39 x 26tpi = standard enlarger mount).
Of course beaten by the outstanding Apo EL Nikkor f5.6/105mm and / or ZEISS S-Orthoplanar f5.6/105mm

Image examples are here:

Leitz Focotar II 100mm : https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/sets/72157635953058455/ (Album)


Zeiss S-Orthoplanar 105mm: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/sets/72157638318121966/ (album)


Nikon Apo EL Nikkor 105mm: (none online)

Lens data/info on my macrolenses site:

Zeiss S-Orthoplanar 105mm: http://www.macrolenses.de/ml_detail.php?ObjektiveNr=313

Nikon Apo-EL-Nikkor 105mm: http://www.macrolenses.de/ml_detail_sl.php?ObjektiveNr=329

S-Ortho will cover >90mm, Apo EL Nikkor only about 80mm, Leitz Focotar II >90mm (but not sure about their cover when using them at infinity, usually smaller by 1/(1+m), m being teh magnification factor)

Rodenstock (LINOS) Apo Rodagon 90mm and 105mm are great lenses (I have them), but cannot beat the ones mentioned above.
Apo Digitar lenses were developed afterwards, but I have no personal experience with them.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Klaus for the suggestions! So it'll be either the Leitz or the Zeiss. The sample shots look impressive. I just tried to find them for sale, but it looks like they are kind of rare. So the decision which of both to buy will probably depend on which I will be able to find.

Best regards,
Christian


PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christian S. wrote:
Thanks Klaus for the suggestions! So it'll be either the Leitz or the Zeiss. The sample shots look impressive. I just tried to find them for sale, but it looks like they are kind of rare. So the decision which of both to buy will probably depend on which I will be able to find.

Best regards,
Christian


Of course they are rare, a) because not many have been made and b) since they are highly sought after by them who know their abilities

But why don't you ask me then...(ditrectly per email I propose)?? Wink Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lenses Klaus shows are really good ones. Other suggestions may be the Schneider Componon-S 100mm f/5.6 at a lower cost or Qioptiq Inspec.x lenses at an even higher one. Maybe you could explain your planned setup in more detail so we can think along more accurately.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dickb wrote:
The lenses Klaus shows are really good ones. Other suggestions may be the Schneider Componon-S 100mm f/5.6 at a lower cost or Qioptiq Inspec.x lenses at an even higher one. Maybe you could explain your planned setup in more detail so we can think along more accurately.


Dick, he requires infinity focus for landscape, so that makes it bit more challenging... Wink


PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
dickb wrote:
The lenses Klaus shows are really good ones. Other suggestions may be the Schneider Componon-S 100mm f/5.6 at a lower cost or Qioptiq Inspec.x lenses at an even higher one. Maybe you could explain your planned setup in more detail so we can think along more accurately.


Dick, he requires infinity focus for landscape, so that makes it bit more challenging... Wink


Klaus, indeed he does. Still, if the Focotar-II 100 is a good option, considering the Componon-S version as well may be smart. Maybe one of the high resolution aerial or Landmess lenses suits his needs better. Does he want a 100mm focal length for its image angle or the expected flange distance? Given the price tag of the lenses , the more informed his decision, the better, I'd say.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dick,

thanks for your feedback. The goal is to adapt an 100-110mm lens to my Pentax 67 for landscape photography that is in the same ballpark as the Pentax 75mm f/2.8 AL or even better. For 6x7 film shots, one might argue that the Mamiya 7 already offers that kind of lens performance. But I wastly prefer the handling of SLR cameras and I am totally satisfied with what the Pentax system has to offer above and below the focal length we talk about.

I have multiple possibilities of doing an adaption which is why I am open to any suggestions, independingly from the mount or form factor. I now found examplary sales figures for the three lenses Klaus mentioned and sadly, for what the Zeiss is being sold today, it is out of reach for the moment. But the Focotar might do the trick. I assume that the needed max flange distance for this lens would be 100mm to focus at infinity, which seems doable considering that the Pentax brings in about 87mm of flange distance on its own.

Best wishes,
Christian


PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK Christian, if you can't find a Focotar II 100mm, I have a backup lens, even one with shortened rear mount for more back focal distance.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christian S. wrote:
Dick,

thanks for your feedback. The goal is to adapt an 100-110mm lens to my Pentax 67 for landscape photography that is in the same ballpark as the Pentax 75mm f/2.8 AL or even better. For 6x7 film shots, one might argue that the Mamiya 7 already offers that kind of lens performance. But I wastly prefer the handling of SLR cameras and I am totally satisfied with what the Pentax system has to offer above and below the focal length we talk about.

I have multiple possibilities of doing an adaption which is why I am open to any suggestions, independingly from the mount or form factor. I now found examplary sales figures for the three lenses Klaus mentioned and sadly, for what the Zeiss is being sold today, it is out of reach for the moment. But the Focotar might do the trick. I assume that the needed max flange distance for this lens would be 100mm to focus at infinity, which seems doable considering that the Pentax brings in about 87mm of flange distance on its own.

Best wishes,
Christian



OK this makes things a lot clearer. I don't know what the flange distance is for the Focotar II, a quick search shows 95mm for a version of the Componon-S and 99mm for the Apo Rodagon N 105mm f/4.0, another potentially interesting candidate.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mamiya rz67 110 2.8 is actually pretty good when stopped down, Its much better than the pentax 105 2.4. The only problem is the lack of focusing helicoid.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consider what the max lp/mm of the film you are using is then ask yourself again - how sharp does the lens have to be to match this?

For landscape work on 6x7 you should be shooting at small apertures - f16, f22, and at such settings, the difference in performance between lenses is usually tiny.

I shoot 6x9 with a Century Graphic, and using a BW film like FP4+ or Fomapan 100 for landscape work with the lens stopped down to f16, it is impossible to tell the difference between my Componon-S 5.6/100, Xenar 3.5/105 or Radionar 4.5/105 - they all out-resolve the film.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I usually shoot Velvia RVP 50 and Provia 100F (RDP III). I've some experiences with scanning on different scanners and I agree that at f/11 already, fine detail is very similar for all lenses. But I rarely shoot the classical approach where everything is within the depth of field. I seldomly stop down beyond f/8. Just recently I shot a whole series at f/11 to f/22 to have another look at what results look like and I did not like it that much. I petsonally thnk that limited field of depyh contributes to the relism of landscaoe imges.

Also, the overall contrast of the new AL lens is visibly higher than of the older lenses. This is visible on a lighttable without a loupe.

What do you think, how large is the performance difference between an Apo Rodagon 105 and the Focotar relatively?


PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't compared enlarging lenses I'm afraid, but I have used them for pictorial work. I have a Componon-S 5.6/100 that works very well indeed as an all-round lens, a little sharper at 0-30m than at further distance.

What I have compared is 6 element plasmat type process lenses, which are very similar to enlarger lenses. I compared Agfa/Staeble Ultragon 9/150, Schneider G-Claron9/150 and Rodenstock APO-Gerogon 9/150. Results were so close that I can't recall any worthwhile differences.