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VPK Meniscus as a portrait lens - the poor man's Thambar
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:18 am    Post subject: VPK Meniscus as a portrait lens - the poor man's Thambar Reply with quote
In 1935 Leitz produced a legendary, magical portrait lens, the 2.2/90 Thambar, see e.g. http://www.shutterbug.com/equipmentreviews/lenses/0405classic/ . Only a relatively small number of Thambars was produced, and the price of the still existing specimens is quite high on the used lens marked, something between USD 1500 and 5000 (or even more). In addition to the high price, the Thambars have some shortcomings. They can only be used on LTM RF bodies, an essential component, the center stop filter, is often missing - and the bokeh is really horrendous due to the center filter, just like a mirror lens donut bokeh, see e.g. some of the photos at http://scottts.exblog.jp/i8 .

A VPK Meniscus lens used really wide open has a lot of spherical aberration and produces photos which are quite similar to the Thambar photos - only without the donut bokeh. I had forgot about the Thambar, but a posting on some forum brought it again to my mind and I decided to test my Meniscus as a portrait lens. Below are some shots taken during my festival trip. I have increased the contrast and applied some sharpening.









Comparing these to the Thambar example photos to be found on the web, I think my poor Meniscus is doing quite well.

Veijo


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks to me a lens with haze or a soft focus lens like Fujinon SF 85mm f4.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
... or a Canon EF 135/2.8 SF Smile

Interesting "experiment" - thanks for sharing your SoftFocus appraoch Smile

Last edited by Cobalt60 on Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I guess SF means soft control ?


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
SF = Soft Focus

Click here to see on Ebay

Up to 150 Euros a "buy recommendation" as it is a very
sharp 135 prime if you don't dial in the SF (you can control
the effect from "0" (=off) to 2) - however it cannot be used
for action due to a somewhat slow AF ... well, I guess that's
normal for a portrait lens that it's not designed for action shooting ...


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Soft Focus lenses are quite rare and over valued as usual. I really don't like them, I had a Fujinon 85mm f4 in my opinion soft efect was crappy I sold immidiatelly. Thanks for the link I have not much clue about Canon gears.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Veijo for the info about the Thambar lens. I did not know about it. I have visited the link to the samples and I have to say that I am not at all impressed by what I see. You are right, the bokeh is simply horrendous.
I find your Meniscus to give much better results than the Thambar.

I think that your photos are really good, althought the strong bright lighting was not the best of lighting situations for a portrait. In fact I think that the last two photos benefit from a more lateral lighting and from the presence of some amount of shade, that gentles the colours and the output.

I would never change your Meniscus for any Thambar, that's for sure!


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very interesting information! Thanks

Of course, we cannot judge a Meniscus lens by modern standards, there is too little contrast and they are too soft. But for what you want to achieve your Meniscus is fantastic.

I don't know if I would exchange it for a Thambar. Perhaps I would, sell the Thambar for a high price and buy another Meniscus lens. Wink


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
I think that your photos are really good, althought the strong bright lighting was not the best of lighting situations for a portrait.


Thanks. Yes, the conditions weren't optimal, but these were just quick test shots also specifically under conditions, where the much lighter sky in the background saturated the sensor.

Veijo


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
Of course, we cannot judge a Meniscus lens by modern standards, there is too little contrast and they are too soft. But for what you want to achieve your Meniscus is fantastic.


You must remember that I'm using the Meniscus in a way it was never designed to be used. The Vest Pocket Kodak from which I extracted the lens had a stop plate in front of the lens and the aperture mechanism proper. This stop plate restricted the maximum aperture to f/11. I removed the stop plate and the aperture mechanism in order to obtain an aperture which approaches f/5.6. The whole idea was to maximize the spherical aberrations in order to get this behaviour. With a smallish aperture, f/11 or f/16, the contrast is much better as the lens has only two air-to-glass surfaces, and even on a crop body the lens is reasonably or even surprisingly sharp taking into account the fact that it was designed for a 645 camera and mainly contact printing or 2x enlargement. This is the lens with which I started my experimentation - and the hoarding of old lenses with a performance range from the Meniscus via the Radionars to the 60 mm Macro-Elmarit-R.

Quote:
I don't know if I would exchange it for a Thambar. Perhaps I would, sell the Thambar for a high price and buy another Meniscus lens. Wink


For the price of a single Thambar I could get hundreds of Meniscus lenses - unless the prices start climbing Smile

Veijo


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi,

these kind of lenses I don't like. It is for me too kitschy. Everytime if I see such kind of photos it remembers me on Hamilton.

cheers
belba


PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vilva wrote:
For the price of a single Thambar I could get hundreds of Meniscus lenses - unless the prices start climbing Smile


That's what I mean, Veijo. Sell the Thambar, buy another Meniscus and enjoy the rest of the money travelling. Wink


vilva wrote:
...The whole idea was to maximize the spherical aberrations in order to get this behaviour...


As I said, "for what you want to achieve your Meniscus is fantastic".
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