Voigtlander prominent nokton 1.5/50...

calvin83 · Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7553 Location: Hong Kong

We all make mistakes as we can't know/remember everything in the world. I have to admit I had made many mistakes at this forum in the past. Embarassed

Personally, I don't care about where they assembled the lens as long as they keeps the quality of the lens.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

scsambrook · Expire: 2011-11-18

Ian commented yesterday that
It had very little to do with East vs West, it was the Japanese success and the German lack of progress that killed the German camera industry.

The Japanese success was in no small part due to the legal position in Japan over the German patents - the German patents were simply not valid so the Japanese were free to copy the best German designs and that is what they did, they then improved on those designs.

which I think needs a bit of amplification and modification if those less well-informed in our community are not to be somewhat misled.

The Japanese industry's post WWII success owed little or nothing to being free to copy invalid German patents - in fact, there never was any free-for-all access to international German patents. Both the British and US governments set up "Custodians of Enemy Property" during the war to control and manage the potentially valuable "intellectual property" they constituted. Once the war ended, the victorious Allies began a large scale process of investigation of all German industries which was intended to be part of a reparations process. Japan, being on the losing side, was certainly not a beneficiary of this hoped-for largesse. I guess that Ian really means that the Japanese (and everyone else) could use freely any material in patents which had lapsed at the end of their lives. Most patents were for 15 years and in some cases could be renewed for a further period, but because the Third Reich ceased to be a member of the 'respectable' international community in either 1939 or 1941 the chances of renewal disappeared. By the late 40s, most of the original Leica patents had lapsed, as had most, if not all, the most important ones of Franke & Heidecke, Deckel, and Gauthier.

But even so, the growth of the Japanese industry had much more to do with other broader factors. Amongst these was its early encouragement by the occupying powers to contribute to Japanese economic growth by helping tor reduce the country's dependency on US financial support. Adding to that was the large scale availability of 'outcasts' from the Imperial Army and Navy's large technological sections which had worked with industry during the war developing and making high grade optical-mechnical devices for war (optical munitions). By the mid-50s Japan had an increasingly successful camera industry which subsequently, rather than copying and improving German designs, was essentially following new paths in developing both SLR and 'compact automatic' designs that could be made by mass production methods. The Japanese industry's success was really due to product and process innovation coupled with state support and some very astute export marketing.

For those who seek a more nuanced view of how and why the German camera industry died, there is some readable scholarly material in print. If anyone's interested I'll be glad to give you the (short!) bibliography.

uhoh7 · Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1300 Location: Idaho, USA

I had the impression the Japanese were not amused by the incredible cost of German cameras and believed they could do nearly as well or even better at much lower cost.

With the dollar at a relatively astronomical level post war, an export item like the Canon and Nikon Rangefinders was valuable. The flood of GIs in the Korean war, and of course DDD's adoption of some Canon lenses, like the 135, in his work for Life, was a boost.

By the 70's all you need to do is compare prices in the magazine Ads. Not only are they cheaper but most are SLRs, which everyone loved. I don't think the Germans could match the SLR price points...too busy building volkswagons....and that happened to be the next target for cars like the Datsun 510.

As to who copied what, obviously the mounts were copied, though not very well by Nikon LOL.

StillSanj · Joined: 21 Apr 2015 Posts: 412 Location: United States

This has turned into an interesting thread. I came to say that all is lost. The person wrote down the wrong number for me. I was trying to be polite and give them time, but in the meantime they sold it to someone else. It was an elderly person so it is a learning experience in regards to contact information. Needless to say-super bummed.

scsambrook · Expire: 2011-11-18

Ohhhh ! What a shame. Maybe you might look for another one with an Ultron instead - you can bet that the minute you get it, another with a Nokton will turn up ! Or perhaps try for a Bessamatic or Ultramatic with a Septon. Or a 40mm Skopagon on its own . . . Wink

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

StillSanj · Joined: 21 Apr 2015 Posts: 412 Location: United States

scsambrook · Expire: 2011-11-18

You see ! It's a funny old world . . . Very Happy

fiftyonepointsix · Joined: 30 Apr 2017 Posts: 292

An old thread.

For Prominent Nokton 50/1.5 owners: finding filters and hoods that use the thread of the lens is difficult, the Voigtlander filters are push ons.

The Polaroid Filter and Hood set for the Model 180 fit perfectly. I just picked up a set from KEH for $35, UV, Orange filter, and hood. I've used my Nokton on the Prominent "I.5", ie lever advance and brightline finder, but not the huge finder of the Prominent II. I've also used it with an S-Mount adapter. I'll be trying it on the Leica with an S-Mount to Leica adapter.

I picked up two Noktons before prices went crazy, sold one for what I paid for two Prominents, the Noktons, wide-angle, telephoto, and Turnit finder.

Shooting it on the S2: it is a very good lens, especially for the early 1950s. The Canon 50/1.4 in LTM is the one to compare with, also a double-Gauss. In my opinion, the Nokton is better than the Summarit and the Simlar 5cm F1.5 in the Double-Gauss category. The lens to put it up against would be the Wartime CZJ Sonnar 5cm F1.5.

Max78 · Joined: 14 Oct 2011 Posts: 74

kymarto · Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:51 pm Post subject:

I have this lens and it has a very characteristic bokeh which has made it a cult lens. An easy way to mount is to forgo any expensive adapter and simply secure it to a M42 helicoid with a couple of wraps of black PVC tape.
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kds315* · Expire: 2021-03-09

very nice Toby!