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Vivitar Series 1 90-180mm f/4.5
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:35 pm    Post subject: Vivitar Series 1 90-180mm f/4.5 Reply with quote

I purchased this lens knowing that the front element is badly damaged. I am wondering if anyone knows or has any specs on this lens. I have contacted a company that makes glass. they have informed me that they would be interested in supplying myself with a piece of glass to replace the front element. they messaged myself and asked for me to find out as much information as I can. they told me they may have a glass lens in there stock. so any information would be a great help. I looked the images over before I purchased the lens. it looks like some one tried to remove the front element with a screw driver. they struck the front glass causing a lot of damage. I will pick the lens up in 2 weeks. I will take images then so you all can see what I am saying. I am wondering could there be another fix. like I said earlier any help greatly appreciated thank you


PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it comes down to how badly damaged the lens actually is. If it's just surface scratches or coating damage, it probably won't make much difference. You can just use black marker to fill in the damaged areas to keep light from hitting that area. Or a line of black paint works well too. If the lens has a chip out of the edge, you can do the same thing. But if it is broken all the way across the lens, it is probably hopeless, though if it's a clean break then you might be able to cement the pieces back together and then paint a strip across both lens surfaces to block light flow. I think I have a link that shows the lens construction but can't seem to find it. If the front lens is part of a cemented group, then all you can hope for is limited surface damage that you can cover with paint or marker.

IMO you'll likely get much better performance out of the lens with the existing glass (if not completely broken all the way across) than trying to make a new element. If you can find a beater lens with other damage then perhaps you can use the front element to replace yours.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:07 am    Post subject: Re: Vivitar Series 1 90-180mm f/4.5 Reply with quote

rockycarter wrote:
I purchased this lens knowing that the front element is badly damaged. I am wondering if anyone knows or has any specs on this lens. I have contacted a company that makes glass. they have informed me that they would be interested in supplying myself with a piece of glass to replace the front element. they messaged myself and asked for me to find out as much information as I can. they told me they may have a glass lens in there stock. so any information would be a great help. I looked the images over before I purchased the lens. it looks like some one tried to remove the front element with a screw driver. they struck the front glass causing a lot of damage. I will pick the lens up in 2 weeks. I will take images then so you all can see what I am saying. I am wondering could there be another fix. like I said earlier any help greatly appreciated thank you

Huh? I am pretty dubious that any glass company is going to be able to replace a damaged lens element with another piece of glass having the identical optical density and ground exactly right - either already in stock or custom fabricated - to act as a suitable replacement, unless the company were furnished with both exact specifications and a ~very~ large sum of money.

I would suggest finding an old and beat-up or damaged VS1 90-180/4.5 lens (of any mount) (as long as the front element is in decent shape) and swapping out the bad element for the good one.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The front element is probably an achromatic doublet, they usually are in old zooms.

Is it worth the hassle to fix this lens? The Series 1 3.5/70-210 is very common and very cheap.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The Series 1 3.5/70-210 is very common and very cheap.


True Ian, but it's not a flat field macro lens.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Parts list and optical cross-section of the 90-180 mm can be found here:

http://www.boggys.co.uk/page36.html

The front element is indeed a doublet. And I would be very sceptical that any company that does not have the exact design specs of the lens can recreate this doublet easily. You need to know the refrative index of both lens elements and the exact curvature as well as - and this is really tricky - the manufacturing tolerances for the latter.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Is it worth the hassle to fix this lens? The Series 1 3.5/70-210 is very common and very cheap.

Yes, indeed, ~IF~ a new front element (or doublet, if that is what must be replaced) can be obtained from another VS1 90-180/4.5 lens (but ~not~ if cobbled together using some "similar" element or doublet instead as some sort of a "Frankenlens").



Here's some info about this wonderful lens:

http://makingnottaking.blogspot.com/2009/12/vivitar-series-1-90-180mm-f45-flat.html

https://www.cameraquest.com/viv90180.htm [if necessary, scroll down slightly for "Vivitar Series One 90-180/4.5"]

http://web.archive.org/web/20040901081529/http://medfmt.8k.com/third/cult.html#vivitar [scroll down just a bit for "Vivitar 90-180mm f/4.5 Flat-Field Macro Lens"]

http://allphotolenses.com/lenses/item/c_1310.html


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:29 pm    Post subject: damage lens Reply with quote

thank you all so much. thank you all for the information. I will read and study this. I have found another vivitar series 1 90-180. the person that has it. told me it was mounted on a camera that fell of a car. he said the lens is scuffed up bad. but there does not appear to be any damage to the glass elements. he explained the camera and the lens body got the worst of it.so he said I can have it for a few dollars. I said to him sold. thank you all I appreciate all your help. I have been doing quit a bite of reading on these lens. I have found out these lens can come out of calibration. so that also makes one think one needs to check these lens out really well.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:35 pm    Post subject: question Reply with quote

this lenses called a flat field is the lenses flat field because of the front element or because of the aliment of all the elements. plus the way the lens focuses and moves all these elements. see the one site states camphor the drive the focusing they can come out of calibration. wondering does any one know of information some where that explains this. I would like to read it if there is thank you all


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: question Reply with quote

rockycarter wrote:
this lenses called a flat field is the lenses flat field because of the front element or because of the aliment of all the elements. plus the way the lens focuses and moves all these elements.

I would suggest "all of the above".

rockycarter wrote:
see the one site states camphor the drive the focusing they can come out of calibration. wondering does any one know of information some where that explains this. I would like to read it if there is thank you all

I don't understand "see the one site states camphor the drive the focusing they can come out of calibration". Please explain.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Vivitar Series 1 90-180mm f/4.5 Reply with quote

rockycarter wrote:
I purchased this lens knowing that the front element is badly damaged. I am wondering if anyone knows or has any specs on this lens. I have contacted a company that makes glass. they have informed me that they would be interested in supplying myself with a piece of glass to replace the front element. they messaged myself and asked for me to find out as much information as I can. they told me they may have a glass lens in there stock. so any information would be a great help. I looked the images over before I purchased the lens. it looks like some one tried to remove the front element with a screw driver. they struck the front glass causing a lot of damage. I will pick the lens up in 2 weeks. I will take images then so you all can see what I am saying. I am wondering could there be another fix. like I said earlier any help greatly appreciated thank you

I wouldn't bother with replacing the front optical element, unless the damage indicates someone went at it with a grinder. It's not just a piece of glass in that lens. It's a piece of optical glass that was specially formulated to achieve specific optical properties. It's not likely you will get a suitable replacement from anyone without paying a fortune. As to physical damage to the lens, the fact is scratches and even gouges on the front element won't make any difference on an image, providing they are blackened with a marker pen (like someone already mentioned above) to prevent light hitting the sides of the scratch/gouge and causing unpleasant reflections inside the lens. In terms of light falloff, keep in mind that every time you reduce the aperture by one stop, you divide the area letting light through the lens by 50%. So even with a deep gouge, you are not likely to loose more light than a tiny fraction of an aperture stop (and I am speaking hundredths here, not tens). Hardly anything even a metering system would be likely to pick up. If the lens is useable otherwise, I say use it like it is.


Last edited by konicamera on Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DigiChromeEd wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The Series 1 3.5/70-210 is very common and very cheap.


True Ian, but it's not a flat field macro lens.


Aah, didn't realise the 90-180 was a macro lens. The 70-210 is very good at it's 'macro setting' though.

Thanks for the info.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
DigiChromeEd wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The Series 1 3.5/70-210 is very common and very cheap.


True Ian, but it's not a flat field macro lens.


Aah, didn't realise the 90-180 was a macro lens. The 70-210 is very good at it's 'macro setting' though.

Thanks for the info.


Yeah, the 90-180 is actually pretty special in its capabilities and rendering.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aah, didn't realise the 90-180 was a macro lens. The 70-210 is very good at it's 'macro setting' though.

Thanks for the info.
_________________
I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it!


iangreenhalgh1 thank you very much. done some research on this lens. I found on another forum one of the members added achromatic doublet. his lens know works at 1.1 same as a macros. the images that are posted there a really very good. I am going to purchase one of these lens you are right there are some of them at a great price. plus lots of them out there. thanks for the tip. have a great one


PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockycarter wrote:
Aah, didn't realise the 90-180 was a macro lens. The 70-210 is very good at it's 'macro setting' though.

Thanks for the info.
_________________
I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it!


iangreenhalgh1 thank you very much. done some research on this lens. I found on another forum one of the members added achromatic doublet. his lens know works at 1.1 same as a macros. the images that are posted there a really very good. I am going to purchase one of these lens you are right there are some of them at a great price. plus lots of them out there. thanks for the tip. have a great one


The vivitar 90/180 is NOW only worth on a collection basis because it was a legendary/very expensive (and price was part of legend) lens when designed/sold in 1974/1975
It is very heavy for limited aperture and the flat field allegation is NOT true (not bad but not true)
    For normal use any good zoom lens (including the 4x viv s1 70/210 versions) is a better recommandation
    For macro use any well know macro lens is (ie : viv s1 90mm/2.5 // kiron + vivitar 105mm 2.5 // Tamron 90mm ...) is a better recommandation


PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PBFACTS wrote:
rockycarter wrote:
Aah, didn't realise the 90-180 was a macro lens. The 70-210 is very good at it's 'macro setting' though.

Thanks for the info.
_________________
I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it!


iangreenhalgh1 thank you very much. done some research on this lens. I found on another forum one of the members added achromatic doublet. his lens know works at 1.1 same as a macros. the images that are posted there a really very good. I am going to purchase one of these lens you are right there are some of them at a great price. plus lots of them out there. thanks for the tip. have a great one


The vivitar 90/180 is NOW only worth on a collection basis because it was a legendary/very expensive (and price was part of legend) lens when designed/sold in 1974/1975
It is very heavy for limited aperture and the flat field allegation is NOT true (not bad but not true)
    For normal use any good zoom lens (including the 4x viv s1 70/210 versions) is a better recommandation
    For macro use any well know macro lens is (ie : viv s1 90mm/2.5 // kiron + vivitar 105mm 2.5 // Tamron 90mm ...) is a better recommandation


I have to agree; I had it in early '80s, and found it very soft and not really satisfying in any way.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
I have to agree; I had it in early '80s, and found it very soft and not really satisfying in any way.


I don't agree, I have this lens and my copy is excellent. It's a large and heavy lens and to perform at it's best needs to be mounted on a sturdy tripod.

Here are two recent photos from mine:-





PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DigiChromeEd wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
I have to agree; I had it in early '80s, and found it very soft and not really satisfying in any way.


I don't agree, I have this lens and my copy is excellent. It's a large and heavy lens and to perform at it's best needs to be mounted on a sturdy tripod.

Here are two recent photos from mine:-





Almost any lens could deliver a pleasant photo of a flower, indeed. My opinion was based on several comparison with other lenses of its time, where the Vivitar turned up to be by far the weakest, at least at larger apertures. The Nikon SE 75-150 by instance showed sharpness and contrast way higher, and it only was a consumer lens, at a fraction of weight. Of course I can only relate about my copy, yours is possibly better, who knows Smile


PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PBFACTS wrote:
It is very heavy for limited aperture and the flat field allegation is NOT true (not bad but not true)

It is indeed a relatively heavy lens, but such was optical technology 40 years ago.
I am puzzled by you calling its flat-field properties an allegation? What is your claim based on?


PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Nikon SE 75-150 is actually Made by Kiron , same manufacturer as the 90-180 flatfield, the same series e lens was also sold as kiron 70-150 ,and also in vivitar branding.

Source --"The Kiron Kid (!) writes: You are correct, this is an excellent lens. Were you aware that it was made by Kiron (Kino Precision Industries) for Nikon? There is a Kiron model, which is a 70-150 f/4, and a Vivitar model, which is a 70-150 f/3.8 All three, are nearly identical, and made by Kiron. However, the Kiron and Vivitar model's do not exhibit the loose zoom-creep as in the Nikon models. We in the Kiron Klub, have tested them thoroughly, and they are pretty much identical in performance. I just thought I'd pass this information along."


PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raay04 wrote:
The Nikon SE 75-150 is actually Made by Kiron , same manufacturer as the 90-180 flatfield, the same series e lens was also sold as kiron 70-150 ,and also in vivitar branding.

Source --"The Kiron Kid (!) writes: You are correct, this is an excellent lens. Were you aware that it was made by Kiron (Kino Precision Industries) for Nikon? There is a Kiron model, which is a 70-150 f/4, and a Vivitar model, which is a 70-150 f/3.8 All three, are nearly identical, and made by Kiron. However, the Kiron and Vivitar model's do not exhibit the loose zoom-creep as in the Nikon models. We in the Kiron Klub, have tested them thoroughly, and they are pretty much identical in performance. I just thought I'd pass this information along."


But Nikon SE was 1:3,5... I guess it was another design, at least a tweaked one.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
raay04 wrote:
The Nikon SE 75-150 is actually Made by Kiron , same manufacturer as the 90-180 flatfield, the same series e lens was also sold as kiron 70-150 ,and also in vivitar branding.

Source --"The Kiron Kid (!) writes: You are correct, this is an excellent lens. Were you aware that it was made by Kiron (Kino Precision Industries) for Nikon? There is a Kiron model, which is a 70-150 f/4, and a Vivitar model, which is a 70-150 f/3.8 All three, are nearly identical, and made by Kiron. However, the Kiron and Vivitar model's do not exhibit the loose zoom-creep as in the Nikon models. We in the Kiron Klub, have tested them thoroughly, and they are pretty much identical in performance. I just thought I'd pass this information along."


But Nikon SE was 1:3,5... I guess it was another design, at least a tweaked one.


Same design , not tweaked , it was no big deal to hide a few facts in those days.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raay04 wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
raay04 wrote:
The Nikon SE 75-150 is actually Made by Kiron , same manufacturer as the 90-180 flatfield, the same series e lens was also sold as kiron 70-150 ,and also in vivitar branding.

Source --"The Kiron Kid (!) writes: You are correct, this is an excellent lens. Were you aware that it was made by Kiron (Kino Precision Industries) for Nikon? There is a Kiron model, which is a 70-150 f/4, and a Vivitar model, which is a 70-150 f/3.8 All three, are nearly identical, and made by Kiron. However, the Kiron and Vivitar model's do not exhibit the loose zoom-creep as in the Nikon models. We in the Kiron Klub, have tested them thoroughly, and they are pretty much identical in performance. I just thought I'd pass this information along."


But Nikon SE was 1:3,5... I guess it was another design, at least a tweaked one.


Same design , not tweaked , it was no big deal to hide a few facts in those days.


Thank you for this information!


PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

konicamera wrote:
I am puzzled by you calling its flat-field properties an allegation? What is your claim based on?


Yes, I'm puzzled too. Can you elaborate?


PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
raay04 wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
raay04 wrote:
The Nikon SE 75-150 is actually Made by Kiron , same manufacturer as the 90-180 flatfield, the same series e lens was also sold as kiron 70-150 ,and also in vivitar branding.
Source --"The Kiron Kid (!) writes: You are correct, this is an excellent lens. Were you aware that it was made by Kiron (Kino Precision Industries) for Nikon? There is a Kiron model, which is a 70-150 f/4, and a Vivitar model, which is a 70-150 f/3.8 All three, are nearly identical, and made by Kiron. However, the Kiron and Vivitar model's do not exhibit the loose zoom-creep as in the Nikon models. We in the Kiron Klub, have tested them thoroughly, and they are pretty much identical in performance. I just thought I'd pass this information along."
But Nikon SE was 1:3,5... I guess it was another design, at least a tweaked one.
Same design , not tweaked , it was no big deal to hide a few facts in those days.
Thank you for this information!

Well, that's a lot of "X is similar to Y and Y is similar to Z" information, but all (or at least most) of the lenses mentioned are not identical to each other (or, most relevant, any of them to the VS1 90-180/4.5 FF).

All of a sudden we're hearing of the Vivitar 70-150 f/3.8 CF (2-touch) (15 elements in 10 eroups) - or is it the Vivitar 70-150 f/3.8 (1-touch) (also 15 elements in 10 groups) - and the Nikon SE 75-150/3.5 (12 elements in 9 groups), and the Kiron 70-150 f/4 Macro (optical design ???) -- how is all of this relevant to the VS1 90-180/4.5 FF (18 elements in 12 groups)??? I don't think this is illuminating -- I think it is obscuring.

And, I'm ~STILL~ waiting to hear about the "allegation" that the VS1 90-180/4.5 Flat Field Zoom is (but isn't ?) a flat field lens...