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Vivitar 200mm f/3.5
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Michael

I guess I didn't word my reply properly, and I apolgize. I was not knocking the quality of your non-Series 1 version at all. I'm sure that you'll be most pleased with its performance.



Kiron Kid


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Russ,

No apology necessary. I didn't take it that way. I am curious about the difference in the optical formulas, however.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have found that I get significantly better detail digitally when I use a slide duplicator with my DSLR and dupe the slides instead of scanning them. Problem with negatives, though, is two fold -- 1, they're in strips, and 2) they're negatives.

Well, I rigged up a way to shoot dupes of the negatives with one of my duplicators using an old slide mount as sort of a sleeve for the carrier. And as it turns out, these negatives hold quite a bit more information than my scanner was able to capture.

Here are a few more images, from the Vivitar 200mm, the Canon 200mm, and the Tamron SP 60-300, all at f/8:

Vivitar 200mm f/3.5 @ f/8:



Canon FD 200mm f/4 @ f/8:



Tamron SP 60-300mm f/3.8-5.4 @ 300mm and f/8:



This time, I did do a bit of post processing -- I ran a noise filter on each of the images. It didn't really affect sharpness, but it did make it easier to evaluate the images, I feel. Also, since the Tamron experienced camera shake when I took its photo at 200mm f/8, I've included one photo I took at 300mm f/8, but reduced it so that it's close to the same size as the other two.

So, anyway, my opinion hasn't really changed. These new images show that the Vivitar holds up very well against the Canon, and also show that the Tamron, even at 300mm, when you might expect it to start exhibiting some softness, still does a good job.

It's also been a bit of a learning experience for me, processing negatives. I've kind of gotten the hang of it now, but I'm still not very good at color consistency from one image to the next. And you can see this in the above photo comparison. Processing negs can be a bit touchy.

The duplicator I used for this can be found on eBay and elsewhere under a variety of brand names. Mine is a Cambron zoom slide duplicator, sold back in the day by Cambridge Camera in NYC. Spiratone called theirs a Vario-Dupliscope. And I've seen the same device sold under other brand names as well. It's a T-mount duplicator with a zoom ring and a slide mount that can be adjusted up or down and sideways. They sold new during the 1980s for about $80-100. I paid $15 for mine several months ago, from an eBay auction.

Unfortunately, because my Canon DSLR is a crop body camera, all the dupes are, in effect, 1.6x enlargements. I have another slide duplicator I also bought recently -- it's an Opteka brand I bought from 47th St. Camera in NYC. This one attaches to the front of a lens, and with the right focal length, I can get full-frame dupes. Typical cheap Chinese, and it's already developed a crack in the barrel, but it actually does a decent job of duplicating. But it's really awkward trying to shoot negatives with it. So, the Cambron got the nod.

Last edited by cooltouch on Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Russ,
I am curious about the difference in the optical formulas, however.


The Komine manufactured Series I 200/f3 72mm front element/accessory size is six elements in six groups with a close focus distance of 1.2 meters (4 ft.)

The Komine fixed mount 200/f3.5 62mm is five elements in four groups with a close focus distance of 1.8 meters (6 ft.)

The Tokina TX lenses were made in two versions the 200/3.5 67mm a five element in four groups design and a close focus distance of 2.5 meters (8.2 ft.)....and the later compact TX 200/F2.8 58mm which had five elements in four groups and has a close focus distance of 2.5 meters (8.2 ft.) as well.

This Tokina 60's version of the fixed mount and the T-4 mount 200/f3.5 67mm I believe is also five elements in four groups and a has a close focus of 1.8 meters (6 ft)

Not sure about the other versions of the 200mm from the 60's and before though.

Last edited by Boomer Depp on Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:35 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the info, Boomer. Do you have any on the Komine-made AF S1 200mm f/3.5, like Russ's fugly one? That's the one I was wondering about.

By the way, I think the saturation you achieved with the photos you posted previously was remarkable given that it was an overcast day. Nice.

I wouldn't mind getting my hands on an S1 200/3. It might alleviate my cravings for either a Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 or a Tamron 180mm f/2.5. Or one of those fat CZJ 2.8 teles. Probably cheaper as well.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I believe the optical formula is the same as the earlier non-auto focus version,the multi-coating may be different.I don't have this auto-focus version of the Vivitar 200mm,but I do have the others dating to the mid-70's.

I don't know if it's me or not (I'm red/green color blind) but I like shooting the 200/3.5 on overcast or hazy days and like bringing it out about an hour or so before sunset and just before and after sunrise...to me the colors are more vivid.

The Nikkor 180mm is a nice lens and well worth the investment...I would really consider getting one over the Vivitar Series 1 200/f3....down the road if you want the Series 1 to fill a hole in a collection,then get one...

I may collect Vivitars...but I never discount my 21 lens strong AI & AI-S Nikkor collection...they are a very very worthy lens line.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Regarding the Nikkor 180mm f/2.8, you're preaching to the choir here. I owned one -- the later ED version -- and after using it for the first time, was literally stunned at the quality of photos it produced. I sold it during a lean time of not enough cash and too much photo gear, and have regretted it. Eventually I'll get another -- or a suitable substitute. And the best suitable substitute to me wuld be the Tamron 180mm f/2.5 LD IF. In testing that I've seen, it actually outperformed the Nikkor. Unfortunately that Tamron is a rare bird -- only 3,000 of them were made. And as a result, whenever I see one for sale, like on eBay, it usually goes for a pretty good chunk of change.

For now, regarding teles in the 200mm range, I'm mostly interested in acquiring a good one in Nikon mount that's f/3.5 or faster. I have only zooms in that range for my Nikon (and my DSLR via adapter), and I like the idea of having a sharp prime for critical work. When I can afford it again, I'll get another Nikkor 180 ED or one of those Tamron beauties.

Last edited by cooltouch on Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah-ha,I see said the blind man...the Vivitar 200/3.5 is a not to bad a performer...in fact it was the Vivitar 200/3.5 that started me down the road to ruin and collecting a few fixed mount Vivitars and later the complete Series I lineup from back in the 70's and early 80's,with the exception of the 90-180 flat field focus,given time I'll acquire that Series I as well...later I decided to collect the TX lineup as well and have all the lenses from that line except the 600mm and the 800mm which were actually T-mount lenses.

The Tamron 180/2.5 LD-IF has a very good reputation indeed,equal to the Nikkor 180/2.8 ED....Olympus made a few fast 180's,a f2 & a f2.8,the 2.8 needs to be stopped down a bit to about 5.6 to perform in the neighborhood of the Nikkor and the Tamron...but the Olympus 180/2 is better then the Nikkor & Tamron are wide open and actually performs better from wide open and down through all the stops.The Olympus 180/2 is spendy like the Tamron 180/2.5...and it's rare to find the Olymus 180/2.8 at a reasonable price as well.

The Olympus Zuiko line really impresses me...I've collected four so far...but have plans to collect all the better performers in the line.

Last edited by Boomer Depp on Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:36 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Back in another life, when I was a camera dealer, I owned several Olympi. Never actually shot pictures with any, though. One thing I learned even way back then was that Oly has a hard core following -- rivaling the SM Pentax crowd -- and they manage to keep the prices of used Oly gear elevated quite high because of high demand. Currently I own an OM-10 with manual adapter, and it's usually a camera that I forget about owning, although I shouldn't. It was bought on a whim at a garage sale for a paltry sum a few years ago, and maybe one roll of film has been put through it since then.

I actually have a couple of Olympi on my wish list: the original OM-2, and the OM-3. Dunno when I'll ever be able to afford some really nice Zuiko glass though.

Come to think of it, I'm still wondering just why it is I bought this Vivitar 200 in the first place. I think I got sucked in because of the price. I mean, I already own a nice 200 in FD mount. I should have just waited and picked up one in Nikon mount, which would have ended up being much more useful. Oh well, no big deal. It's so purty, I don't mind adding it to my collection.

Speaking of which, I can understand your attraction toward S1 glass. I've been a big fan of Vivitar products ever since I bought my first S1 28-90 in 1984 or so. And I've owned a few beauties that, in moments of weakness, I sold. Ever seen one of the Vivitar preset T-mount 135mm f/1.5 "Professionals"?

http://www.astromart.com/images/classifieds/337000-337999/337501-1.jpg

I owned one for years. Incredibly soft wide open, and even stopped down, it was no better than OK. Coupled to my Vivitar 7-element teleconverter, I had myself a "poor man's 300/2.8" or almost -- a 270mm f/3 -- but in no way did it perform in that class. Another beaut I owned briefly until I got talked out of it and sold it for substantially more than I paid for it was the 90-180mm flat field macro.

I keep wondering if the S1 solid cats are really as good as people say they are . . . Yeah, I can see how it would be real easy getting sucked into Vivitar collecting.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You had to show me that 135/1.5 didn't you...Nice!...looks like a beauty...someday perhaps...oh,well...can't collect them all,but I can sure try...sigh

Talk about the solid cat mirror lenses sometime...but it's way past my bedtime...I will say though that the Tamron mirrors are better mirror lenses...and the Russian mirrors are even better...


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Thanks for the info, Boomer. Do you have any on the Komine-made AF S1 200mm f/3.5, like Russ's fugly one? That's the one I was wondering about.
.


Michael

My Viv S-1 200mm f/3.5AF glass, focuses to about 6 feet minimum. I believe that my Panagor (Kiron) 200mm f3.5 needs a bit more distance. It's no slouch either. The Panagor's are usuallty very cheap, when they come around. My Panagor (Kiron) 200mm and 21mm lenses do rather well. As for the "fugly" Series 1 200mm AF lenses, the Cosina and Komine model look identical, and both deliver VERY results. Mine hold it's own with my buddies Nikon 180 f/2.8 easily. I actually don't find them to be fugly at all. And as I said, the added lens motor makes it easier to handhold. The auto-focus is quite accurate, just not as quick as today's AF lenses and bodies. I've attached snaps of my Panagor's.


Panagor 200mm f/3.5


Panagor 21mm


Kodak HIE B/W IR, with Panagor 21mm glass.

Kiron Kid

Last edited by Russ on Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A few more examples. These with a Vivitar 200mm f/3.5 T4 lens.






PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Russ wrote:
My Viv S-1 200mm f/3.5AF glass, focuses to about 6 feet minimum.


Yeah, so does mine. This is one reason why I was wondering if the optical formulas might be the same. Same front filter size, same minimum focusing distance, same manufacturer, but perhaps different coatings? I think this lens is multicoated (I see yellow, blue, and purple reflections), but it may not be as good as those on S1 lenses. I don't know when Vivitar first started marketing their S1 lenses, but I'll wager the age of mine predates this. I'm figuring this 200 is probably an early 70s lens.

Big Dawg, that old T4 is impressive. Love the color. Nice bokeh too.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big Dawg wrote:

Shot these with mine as a trial. The original and 2 cropped photos. Hand held too.




That's a good crisp result, especially looking at the water droplets.

Russ wrote:
But easy to handhold and very sharp. I like it. Being that short and stout, it's very easy to handhold in less than idea lighting conditions. I used it to make this snap in overcast conditions.



Looks fine at that small size, but its difficult to evaluate a claim of superior quality without some 100% crops.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
patrickh wrote:
Frankly my fugly Viv Ser1 200/3.5 outperforms my nikkor 200/4 on most days! The nikkor is nonetheless a great performer for such issues as OOF rendition and colours.


How does your Viv 200/3.5 do against your Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 ED, Patrick?


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Congrats , Russ ! I have these lenses in M42 .The 21 mm gives very saturated colors , I prefer it on general rendition , compared with Flektogon 2,8/20 and Mir-47k . Smile


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Helios wrote:
Congrats , Russ ! I have these lenses in M42 .The 21 mm gives very saturated colors , I prefer it on general rendition , compared with Flektogon 2,8/20 and Mir-47k . Smile


You have those same Panagor's? You like them?

Russ


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Chris
The Ser 1 AF 200/3.5 Viv is extremely sharp, to confirm Russ' view. It is at least as sharp as the Nikkor 180/2.8. However, as a personal preference I love my Nikkor, the colours, OOF and saturation are to my liking. The Viv by comparison has more "brilliant" colouring, rather like the Canon compared with the Nikon. However, it would be no exaggeration to put it in the same league!


patrickh


PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
patrickh wrote:
Chris
The Ser 1 AF 200/3.5 Viv is extremely sharp, to confirm Russ' view. It is at least as sharp as the Nikkor 180/2.8. However, as a personal preference I love my Nikkor, the colours, OOF and saturation are to my liking. The Viv by comparison has more "brilliant" colouring, rather like the Canon compared with the Nikon. However, it would be no exaggeration to put it in the same league!


Thanks for this useful comparison, Patrick.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I mistook the lens models, the photos were not from vivitar but chinon 200 / 3.5 Smile


Samples moved to the Auto Chinon 200 / 3.5 topic.

Last edited by siudym on Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it the one with the 28xxxxx serial number?


PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very nice results from this lens.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Old post, but a great lens and worth reminding ourselves just how good this lens is. I've got this in TX Mount ( Tokina ) and Olympus OM, ( Komine )had both for years and I won't sell either I keep going back to them because I trust them. I know exactly what to expect, and it's all good.









Last edited by Lloydy on Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:13 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I believe the Panagor also shown in this thread was also made by Komine. (It came in two versions early mfd 2.5 meter 8 blades orange lettering on the distance scale and late (harder to find) MFD 1.8 meter and six blades but multi-coated (PMC) and red lettering on the distance scale.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've got the old Tokina version with the aperture preset and slotted blades. Really nice lens.
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