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Mamiya Sekor CS and E 3.8/80-200mm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:00 pm    Post subject: Mamiya Sekor CS and E 3.8/80-200mm Reply with quote
This lens is one of the lenses I knew pretty well when I was in high school. I ave used it (the CS version) extensivly to shoot during class, especially the girls sitting vice versa to me Wink

Shortly after getting my Minolta 9000 equipment I gave away all my Mamiya gear including the CS 3.8/80-200mm.

Many moons have passed since, and a few years ago I saw a nice Sekor CS 3.8/80-200mm in a local online auction. Assuming it could be "mine" (i. e. the one I gave away thirty years ago) I bought it - and in fact it was that very lens I had used so extensively in the late 1980s!

During the weekend I have been in Pisa, and I took with me the A7II plus Sekor CS 2.8/35mm and Sekor CS 3.8/80-200mm lenses. The latter is a very well made and machined manula focus zoom with a classical 80-200mm range and an MFD of 1.3 m. Zooming and focusing works well - just the right amount of resistance when turning the respective rings, and an unique rubber grip which has a unique and really good "grip" (quite different from all other rubber grips I know).

Since we are in Pisa, let's start at the Piazza dei Miracoli ("square of miracles"). You all know the Torre Pendente (Leaning Tower) of course, but there's also the Duomo (Cathedral) and the the Battistero. Construction of the Cathedral was started in 1095, and it must have ben almost completed in 1118.

Image below taken wide open at f=80mm quite a while after sunset in dim light.



Apart from slight fringing, detail resolution is very good even in the corners, and there's not much lateral CAs (there is some, as we'll see later). 100% crop from the above image:



Upper part of the facade, also at f=80mm:


Statue in front of the Duomo, just besides the Leaning Tower (again wide open at f=80mm):


Not much background blur of course, but resolution is very good, albeit at slightly low contrast (good for portraits) - here's a 100% crop from the above JPG:


PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Now a few images from the Arno river with focal lengths of 80mm, around 135mm and 200mm. Let's start with 80mm, again:



THat's a pretty spectacular evening shot taken just at sunset. The air was extremely clear, and using the "autumn" program on the A7II increases the colors, of course. Such images are perfect for offset printing, and I'm pretty sure that this one will be published not only in the internet. To get enough depth-of-field I did stop down to f8. Perfect resolution over the entire image (24 MP FF), and nearly no lateral / longitudinal CAs.

Detail (100% crop) from the border of the above image:


Same location (well, more or less), but in the morning. f=80mm, and this time at f8:


This seems to be the optimum aperture. The 100% crop reveals the excellent resolution (look at the artefacts at the blinds!):


Finally here's another one from the same location, but one day earlier, and with different light. Pretty coll as well! Wide open (as you can from the vignetting which increases the overall impression of the image):


100% crop reveals that we are "wide open" indeed - there's a slight fringing and reduced contrast:


S


PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The results look pretty good to me 👍
By the way: very nice pictures!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
The results look pretty good to me 👍


Yep, I was surprised too. Especially the 80mm - 120mm range is very good indeed. From 135mm to 200mm there's increasingly more fringing and lateral CAs, but resolution remains good. I wonder how the later E version would have performed .. I have several samples of that one, but actually didn't really use it on digital cameras (and neither on analogue ones since I got my first Sekor E 3.8/80-200mm about eight years ago). More images and information will follow tomorrow.

S


PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice shots, are you using mamiya ze adapter for the CS lenses on Sony a7?
Regarding the artefacts on the blinds, I found em few times on bricks with strong light, and also roof tiles , is there any way to avoid em? How easy is to correct em in post? Thanks


PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Any idea how it compares to the Vario Sonnar? Equal sharpness, more CA’s?


PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
Any idea how it compares to the Vario Sonnar? Equal sharpness, more CA’s?


I just have been comparing a Mamiya Sekor E 3.8/80-200mm side-to-side with the Zeiss Vario-Sonnar CY 4/80-200mm, at f=80mm, 135mm, and 200mm (infinity and 24 MP FF as usual). Apertures were f3.8 (f4) and f8.

At 80mm, the Mamiya has slightly less CAs than the Zeiss, and - maybe - slightly less corner resolution. But the Mamiya looks very clean indeed.

At 135mm, both lenses look very good (for a vintage zoom, that is). Better than any vintage 2.8/135mm I'm aware of (less CAs than the Zeiss CY 2.8/135mm, MUCH better than the Leica R 2.8/135mm 2nd computation)

At 200mm and wide open, the Mamiya has different shape (narrower) and color (magenta) that Zeiss (broader, blueish). Zeiss CAs look slightly less disturbing, but Mamiya may be easier to correct in PP. Resolution of the Mamiya is as good as the Zeiss ...

BUT - now comes the caveat (and here we see that the Zeiss is ten years younger than the Mamiya):

My Sekor E 3.8/80-200mm has some issues with slight (!) fogging somwhere in the front element, thus reducing contrast. My CS 3.8/80-200mm doesn't have these problems, and a second copy of the Sekor E 3.8/80-200mm had slight fogging too. I have about half a dozen 3.8/80-200mm lenses, and I'll check whether they all have the same problem (the probably do).

And while both Mamiya versions (Sekor CS and Sekor E) have a really sturdy metal barrel, the Zeiss works smoother and feels even more precise than the Mamiyas. Zeiss has 1.0m m MFD, Sekor CS/E have 1.3m.

So yes, the Mamiya certainly is a very good vintage tele zoom. In the 80-110mm range there are no CAs at all, and distortion is low around 100-120mm (barrel at 80mm, pincushion at 200mm as usual with tele zooms). BUT beware of fogging ...!!

S


PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for your reply. The fogging issue is indeed a bit concerning. Also I like the push-pull mechanism of the Zeiss more than two separate rings.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
Thanks for your reply. The fogging issue is indeed a bit concerning. Also I like the push-pull mechanism of the Zeiss more than two separate rings.


I just have been cleaning one of the two slightly fogged Mamiya Sekor E 3.8/80-200mm lenses. It was extremely easy:

1) Make sure you have the right tool (spanner wrench) and some solvent like acetone or (iso-)propanol
2) Soak the front ring with a few drops of solvent while turning the lens around its axis (thus ensuring that the entire ring gets some solvent); wait for maybe one minute
3) carefulls unscrew the front ring (labelled "MAMIYA-SEKOR ZOOM E 1:3.8 f=80mm ...") and remove it
4) remove the front doublet, the spacer ring and the single positive lens of the front group (be careful to remember the correct orientation of all these parts)
5) clean the lenses, especially the rear of the single lens and - if necessary - the front lens of the variator group which is still inside the main lens barrel
6) re-assemble the single lens correctly. Inserting may be a little bit tricky since tolerances are small; it's best to put the single lens e. g. on a lens sucker or small rubber tube an insert it from below (!) into the inverted (!) lens barrel. Inserting the spacer is no problem; inserting the front doublet is realtively easy as well. Put the front ring back into its correct postition. Done!

S


PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
Nice shots, are you using mamiya ze adapter for the CS lenses on Sony a7?
Regarding the artefacts on the blinds, I found em few times on bricks with strong light, and also roof tiles , is there any way to avoid em? How easy is to correct em in post? Thanks


That's a problem of the de-mosaicing algorithms if A) the lens is clearly outresolving the sensor and B) the image contains structures (details) which are about as small as 1-2 pixels, thus creating interferences between sensor pixel alignment and alignement of the structures seen in the image. Usually a better RAW converter circumvents the problems (the images shown above all are JPGs out of A7II)


caspert79 wrote:
Any idea how it compares to the Vario Sonnar? Equal sharpness, more CA’s?


Here you are - corner crops from 24 MP FF Sony A7II JPGs out of cam.

First at f=80mm. Wide open (left) and f8 (right):



Then at f=200mm. Wide open (left) and f8 (right):


I think you can spot the Zeiss ... but the differences are surprisingly small given the fact that the Mamiya is a 1980 zoom which was about four times cheaper than the 1990s Zeiss ...

S
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