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Please comment: which lens has best bokeh character ever?
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I read your post carefully. I was hoping it would ask the right questions, or frame the discussion in a way that leads us to answers. But talking about 'most character' may generate the greatest diversity of opinion. And as for 'soul-warming' . . . !

How about we try to find the metrics first? Starting with:

1. highlight rendition
2. focus transition
3. optical vignetting
4. fore/aft focal plane even-ness (someone please find a better way of saying that . . .)


PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
KONICA 57MM 1.2


PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like bubble bokeh (not always), I kind of like swirly bokeh (only at times, if it's not excessive and doesn't make me nauseous), but most of all I like blurred, creamy, painterly backgrounds (and in some cases also foregrounds). I almost always keep the subject out of the centre on purpose, leaving an important part of the picture for OOF areas.

Apart from all the usual suspects, like Meyer's Trioplan 50mm, Trioplan 100mm, Trioplan N 100mm, Primoplan 58mm, plus all the non-Meyer ones, like the Helios 40 "chrome", Leitz Summicron 90mm, CZJ Pancolar 80mm, etc etc, I'd like to shine some light on a few unsung heroes of the bokeh kingdom:

Revuenon 1.2/55mm (or any other of its Tomioka made twins)
Sigma Macro MF 5.6/180mm
any version of Sankor 2.5/105mm
Sankyo Kohki Komura 2.5/105 (Ernostar)
Jupiter 1.5/50mm M39
Auto Takumar 1.8/85mm (different from all the other f/1.8 and f/1.9 85mm's by Pentax, and in my opinion better for this specific purpose)

I'm trying to find out if I like the Fujinon 2.2/55mm and the "chrome nose" Sankyo Koki Komura 2.8/105mm (very likely a Sonnar from the reflections), but I haven't shot enough pictures to understand if they really belong to the Olympus of the bokeh optics.

Speaking of longer focals, I have been quite happy with the bokeh of the various TeleMegor variants, again a Meyer lens Smile

Last edited by cyberjunkie on Fri May 26, 2023 1:22 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
for me first choice is my Dallmeyer Super Six. Any focal length is good. I happen to have the big one, the 8 inch f2.
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The Kinon Superior 1 5cm f1.6 bokeh is very strong but interesting

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CZJ Pancolar 55mm f1.4 also great


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Surprise contender is the Elgeet Cine Navitar 2 inch f1.5

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There are a couple more, like the Canon 50mm 1.2 LTM and the Leotax Leonon 5cm f2. I can post pics, but this is already too long


PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2023 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you everybody for your responses so far!!

16:9 wrote:
talking about 'most character' may generate the greatest diversity of opinion. And as for 'soul-warming' . . . !
How about we try to find the metrics first? Starting with:
1. highlight rendition
2. focus transition
3. optical vignetting
4. fore/aft focal plane even-ness (someone please find a better way of saying that . . .)


I was not expecting to find "the one" "perfect" lens, quite to the contrary - that would be like asking "which is the best photograph ever taken". But rather than an endless list of just "nice" lenses, I wanted to see what everybody found really touched them. Your metrics are correct technically, but are they practicable? Or put differently - which lens best fulfills ALL those metrics for you?

me too, I'd love to read that 35/1.5 review Smile - I had thought about bidding on one several times, but talked myself out of it

Please, if you haven't done so yet, feel encouraged to post your ideas!


PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2023 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 nice series kymarto


PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2023 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kymarto wrote:
for me first choice is my Dallmeyer Super Six. Any focal length is good. I happen to have the big one, the 8 inch f2.


Expensive lens, but I like very much the bokeh.
I have an evolution of the SuperSix made for medical cameras. It's the Dallmeyer Rareac 1.9/51mm (my example is actually marked Shackman, but it's the same lens), sitting on a Compur Press No.1.
I have seen pictures online, shot with the same lens, which show a beautiful, though a little extreme bokeh. Finally I found a nice Schneider No.1 barrel and a focusing mount, to make its use easier... and when all was ready to transplant the two optical cells I couldn't find the lens anymore!
Last time I saw it was about six months ago. I hope to find it soon, I'm kind of impatient to try it. I've read it renders not so differently from the SuperSix, and having seen your pics I'm eager to give it a try on digital as soon as possible.

I'm curious to know if any forum member owns one of the Rareacs f/1.9, and what's the opinion about those lenses.

Last edited by cyberjunkie on Sat May 27, 2023 1:01 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2023 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The real No 1 is a MINOLTA or Sony 135mm STF.
In the classic manual focus lenses I love the Minolta MC Rokkor 1.2 58mm at f2.8.


PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 10:36 pm    Post subject: A few bokeh examples Reply with quote
Here are a few pictures which show the peculiar bokeh of some of the lenses I mentioned in my previous post, plus a couple others I didn't mention.
I'm sure I forgot/overlooked some other lenses, and for some others I couldn't find a decent bokeh example.


Tamron SP 1:2.8 70-150mm (51A) Soft Focus Zoom





At Polar Club, Seattle 1





Revuenon (Tomioka) MC 1:1.2 55mm PK

Chiang Mai night market 5

Chiang Mai night market 3





Helios 44K-4 1:2 58mm







Meyer Trioplan N 1:2.8 100mm






Pentax Auto Takumar 1:1,8 85mm




Fujinon 1:2.2 55mm M42





Leitz Canada Elmarit M f2.8 135mm

Flowers with Elmarit 2



Soligor (Tokina) C/D "red P" 1:2 135mm

Thai wild flowers 1



Sigma Apo Macro UC 1:5.6 180mm MF

blooming embraced



SMC Pentax 1:1.2 50mm






ZOMZ Jupiter-3 1:1.5 F=50mm M39 on m4/3






KMZ Jupiter-8 1:2 F=5cm on m4/3






Konica Hexanon AR 40mm F1.8 on m4/3





Spiratone (Sankor) Tc 1:2.5 105mm

Chinese New Year costume beauty contest




Helios 44-2 1:2 58mm






Auto Chinon 1:1.4 f=55mm M42







I added at the end a couple of flower shots made with the Auto Chinon 1.4/55mm. The photos are not great, and shot on an old CCD sensor, but I hope they give some clues about the bokeh.
The other lens I'm trying is the Sankyo Koki Komura 1:2.8 f=105mm. I still don't have good examples of its bokeh. I'm very curious about that lens cause I'm almost sure it's a Sonnar (two very faint reflections, which suggests the presence of a cemented triplet, and a rather short barrel, with some heavy glass in it), so if I'm not mistaken it would be the only Sonnar lens I own in the 100/105mm focal. Given it's vintage it could be a knock-off of the famous Nikkor 105mm for Contax mount rangefinders. I hope to shoot soon some good bokeh examples...
I like smooth, pastel-like bokeh for the background of portrait pictures.
Here I posted only two portraits, one shot with the Sankor 2.5/105mm and the other with the Tamron SP Soft Focus. The latter shows the rendering of that lens with the SF ring set at 0 or 1, with minimal soft focus effect.
I could not find any bokeh example of the Leitz Summicron 2/90mm, which trumps, bokeh wise, the Elmarit 2.8/135mm.


PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kymarto, wooooow! After seing your pics I'm giving up. Selling all my stuff and starting reading novels instead. 🤷‍♀️


PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cyberjunkie wrote:
kymarto wrote:
for me first choice is my Dallmeyer Super Six. Any focal length is good. I happen to have the big one, the 8 inch f2.


Expensive lens, but I like very much the bokeh.
I have an evolution of the SuperSix made for medical cameras. It's the Dallmeyer Rareac 1.9/51mm (my example is actually marked Shackman, but it's the same lens), sitting on a Compur Press No.1.
I have seen pictures online, shot with the same lens, which show a beautiful, though a little extreme bokeh. Finally I found a nice Schneider No.1 barrel and a focusing mount, to make its use easier... and when all was ready to transplant the two optical cells I couldn't find the lens anymore!
Last time I saw it was about six months ago. I hope to find it soon, I'm kind of impatient to try it. I've read it renders not so differently from the SuperSix, and having seen your pics I'm eager to give it a try on digital as soon as possible.

I'm curious to know if any forum member owns one of the Rareacs f/1.9, and what's the opinion about those lenses.


I do not have a Rareac, but I have carefully studied a lot of images taken with Rareac and my conclusion is that with a new 6/4 formulation, Dallmeyer killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. The characteristic that makes the SS bokeh unique, it seems to me, is a fine bright edgo on the COCs, with a very even darker center to the discs. This gives a textured look to the bokeh without it becoming overpowering, like the Biotar 75mm f1.5, for example. The Rareac are too smooth, IMO. I'm sure they have better microcontrast and are sharper than Super Sixes...but they lose something in the process. I'd love to see some direct comparisons.

Last edited by kymarto on Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another vote for the Helios 44-4


PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
16:9 wrote:
I read your post carefully. I was hoping it would ask the right questions, or frame the discussion in a way that leads us to answers. But talking about 'most character' may generate the greatest diversity of opinion. And as for 'soul-warming' . . . !

How about we try to find the metrics first? Starting with:

1. highlight rendition
2. focus transition
3. optical vignetting
4. fore/aft focal plane even-ness (someone please find a better way of saying that . . .)


I don't think that these are the only metrics by a long shot, nor am I even clear on some of them. What, for example, is "highlight rendition"?. For me, bokeh is mostly about levels of the Seidel aberrations. Spherical aberration is extremely important for determining the character of the bokeh, as is astigmatism and coma. The former determines the structure of the COCs, while the latter determine their shapes off axis. Then there is field curvature, a big one. For me these are the main determinants of the character of the bokeh.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Carl Zeis sonnar 4cm/2


on cropped picture, we can see unique bubles


PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
For unusual bubbles, there is the Kilfitt Makro Kilar 90mm f2.8 with bi-spheric element
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
So, do we have a result? Laugh 1


PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steinheil München Culminar 2.8/85 VL made me discover and enjoy bokeh many years ago on early Pentax K10D:

https://www.deviantart.com/pancolartjorge/art/The-Lathe-of-Heaven-144449018


PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars wrote:
So, do we have a result? Laugh 1


noooo, please let's keep going, I'm enjoying y'all's input so much!
and I guess even if that were the goal, there never could be "a" result. personally, I now own more 5os than I'd be willing to admit, just because I enjoy their character so much. I couldn't pick a favourite.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"Wildest," most spectacular bokeh? Spiratone/Soligor 20mm f/2.8, especially for closeups. Honorable mentions: Petri Orikkor 50/2, EBC Fujinon 50/1.6.

Most Beautiful? Years ago I had a Cooke Panchrotal 4" T2.5 C mount that was pure magic. Got it in a bulk lot and eventually sold it off to finance other lens adventures, especially as I was shooting mostly SLR at the time and couldn't mount it, but boy could that lens sing.
As far as what's in my possession right now, the Nikkor 105mm f/1.8 Ai is a fave.
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