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Minolta 4/75-150mm vs 70-210mm tele zooms
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:41 pm    Post subject: Minolta 4/75-150mm vs 70-210mm tele zooms Reply with quote
In an earlier thread I was asked about the performance of other vintage zooms in the 70-21mm range vs the legendary Minolta MD-III 4/75-150mm:

kiddo wrote:

Hi Stevemark,

I'm still looking for the 75-150 rokkor, but is very hard to find ,so , is there any 75-200 that would get same sharpness in the FL? Don't really care about weight , but if possible, not much CA, thanks


When I did run some early tests with the MD 4/75-150mm I was immediately taken by its clean and CA-free images, and the very good corner resolution even widse open at f4. I knew I hadn't seen this with other vintage zooms (though modern tele zooms are better of course), but I never had carefully compared the lens with other well known contemporary 70-210mm (75-200mm) zooms.

Here we are again. I just have checked the performance of the three Minolta MD-III tele zooms 4/75-15mm, 4.5/75-200mm and 4/70-210mm at f=75mm, f=100mm and f=150mm. At f=150mm I have added also the Mamiya Sekor C 4.5/105-210mm medium format lens (early "non-ULD" version).

Here first the results at f=70mm (as usual these are 100% crops from the corners of 14 MP FF JPGs out of the Sony A7II):

CLICK TWICE AT THE IMAGE TO SEE THE FULL RESOLUTION!



We can see that at the short end the MD 75-150mm clearly outperforms the 75-200mm and even more so the 70-210mm. Especially remarkable are not only the resolution wide open, but also how free from lateral CAs the 75-150mm is. The 70-210mm on the other hand, with its 3x zoom range, has a slightly reduced corner resolution at f=70mm.


Now at f=100mm:



At f=100mm the MD 75-150mm really excels: No lateral CAs, and excellet resolution especially at f8. If you compare this result with contemporary well known primes such as the Nikkor 2.5/105mm (2nd computation "Xenotar type" or Minolta 2.5/100mm) you'll see that the primes have more CAs than the humble Minolta zoom. Quite remarkable indeed! Remarkable also the performancce of the MD 4/70-210mm which around 100-135mm is at its best. No CAs as well, at least at f8. The earlier MD 4.5/75-150mm is a bit weaker, but certainly comparable to the famous primes I just mentioned.

Finally at f=150mm:



I have included here the Mamiya Sekro C 105-210mm - simply to show how good a zoom from the same time frame can be. The Mamiya 105-210mm - even though it's the non-ULD version! - has no CAs at all. Wide open at f4.5, its resolution is a bit lower than at f8 (remember, we are talking about the extreme corner here!), but since there are no CAs the entire image looks remarkably clear and pure nevertheless. Stopped doen to f8 the Mamiya is simpy excellent. In addition vignetting is clearly reduced compared to the other zooms.

Wide open, the Minolta MD 75-150mm may have a little more resolution than the Mamiya, but now some lateral CAs become visible. The two other MD-III tele zooms are pretty good, but not as goo as the 75-150mm. Stopped down, the Mamiya really is excellent while the tree Minolta zooms all have a fair amount of CAs.

I hope that this first round of "75-200mm zooms vs Minolta MD 75-150mm" was a bit of fun. I hope I can continue tomorrow with another set of zooms challenging the tiny Minolta!

S


PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's quite impressive. Certainly food for thought. Have you considered something which crops the 75-150mm to 200mm, and compare then?


PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting post. I 'accidently' became owner of an MD 70-210mm, as it was part of a complete camera set (including the MC-X 35/1.8 that I was after). But it seems that the 75-150mm is the better buy here.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Minolta 4/75-150mm vs 70-210mm tele zooms Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
I hope I can continue tomorrow with another set of zooms challenging the tiny Minolta!


Tiny indeed. A characteristic not to be underestimated; I find that the MDIII 75-150/4 is noticeably easier to squeeze into a camera bag than some of the other zooms mentioned.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The 75-150mm is not so easy to find I found out. Pity.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
The 75-150mm is not so easy to find I found out. Pity.


Harder to find outside of Japan, yes.

But outside of Japan they do still turn up regularly, if you keep an eye out for it and are willing to wait a few weeks.

If you don't want to wait that long, then Japanese sellers are your best bet.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
eggplant wrote:
That's quite impressive. Certainly food for thought. Have you considered something which crops the 75-150mm to 200mm, and compare then?


I've just been following your thoughts, comparing the following:

1) 24MP FF plus MD 4/70-210mm at f=210mm, wide open and f8
2) 18 MP APS-C (A7RII cropped to APS-C) plus MD 75-150mm at f=150mm

If we superimpose those two images in Photoshop, the subjects have nearly the same size.

At f4, the 75-150mm on APS-C is a bit low in contrast and with traces of purple fringing all over the entore image (typical for high res sensors in the 50MP range). The 70-210mm plus 24 MP sensor looks better, even though CAs are more prononunced.

At f8 the 75-150mm on APS-C has a perfect contrast, and all the purple finging is gone. Since the "cropped" 75-150mm is better corrected for CAs and since we omit the outer parts of the image, there are much less CAs than with the 70-210 lus A7II combo. The 75-150 wins ...

If we use both the 75-150 as well as the the 70-210 on 43MP FF, and if we corrrect the 70-210 for CAs, the 70-210 results in better results than the cropped 75-150mm.

Not easy to say which combination wins.

S


PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
The 75-150mm is not so easy to find I found out. Pity.


I have this superb lens c/w dedicated hood in as new condition which I may be persuaded to part with if you are interested.
Only reason for selling is my aging eyesight is making using mf lenses more and more difficult for me and last year I decided to sell most of my collection of mf lenses and invest in af ones which is making my photography fun again.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DigiChromeEd wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
The 75-150mm is not so easy to find I found out. Pity.


I have this superb lens c/w dedicated hood in as new condition which I may be persuaded to part with if you are interested.
Only reason for selling is my aging eyesight is making using mf lenses more and more difficult for me and last year I decided to sell most of my collection of mf lenses and invest in af ones which is making my photography fun again.


Will send you a pb.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/e1050296037 only three watchers.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very interesting. The 75 200 seems better in terms of sharpness but looses on CA against the 70 210.
The 75 150 is in a different class.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/e1050296037 only three watchers.


This one was listed as damaged/dirty, but just bought another one from buyee that is supposedly in good condition.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/e1050296037 only three watchers.


This one was listed as damaged/dirty, but just bought another one from buyee that is supposedly in good condition.


I know but the images don't look so bad. It's always a risk, but I have plenty of very good lenses that were sold as a damaged/dirty


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is the mdiii 75-200 f4. 5 the Leica collaboration lens?


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Is the mdiii 75-200 f4. 5 the Leica collaboration lens?


I have read conflicting stories here:

- Some claim the earlier MC 80-200 f/4.5 was the first tele-zoom in the Minolta-Leica collaboration. Not too sure about that myself.
- The MD 75-200 f/4.5 is often referred to as a Minolta-Leica collaboration.
- The MD-III 70-210 f/4 is sometimes also mentioned as a Minolta-Leica collaboration. Again, not sure a bout that myself.

Then there is the question as to exactly what entailed this "collaboration" for the various lenses involved (35-70/3.5, 75-200 f/4.5, 16/2.8, 24/2.8 etc.)

- Did the two companies collaborate on the design? (My guess is they are pure Minolta optical calculations)
- Did Minolta manufacture them for Leica? (I doubt they were delivered completely finished to Leica)
- Did Minolta only supply the finished lens groups to Leica and did Leica do the rest of the assembly?

Perhaps other members can confirm some of these details (possibly suggested for a different post though, not to highjack this one Wink )


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
RokkorDoctor wrote:
Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Is the mdiii 75-200 f4. 5 the Leica collaboration lens?


I have read conflicting stories here:

- Some claim the earlier MC 80-200 f/4.5 was the first tele-zoom in the Minolta-Leica collaboration. Not too sure about that myself.
- The MD 75-200 f/4.5 is often referred to as a Minolta-Leica collaboration.
- The MD-III 70-210 f/4 is sometimes also mentioned as a Minolta-Leica collaboration. Again, not sure a bout that myself.

Then there is the question as to exactly what entailed this "collaboration" for the various lenses involved (35-70/3.5, 75-200 f/4.5, 16/2.8, 24/2.8 etc.)

- Did the two companies collaborate on the design? (My guess is they are pure Minolta optical calculations)
- Did Minolta manufacture them for Leica? (I doubt they were delivered completely finished to Leica)
- Did Minolta only supply the finished lens groups to Leica and did Leica do the rest of the assembly?

Perhaps other members can confirm some of these details (possibly suggested for a different post though, not to highjack this one Wink )


http://forum.mflenses.com/the-leica-minolta-collaboration-t83263,highlight,%2Bminolta.html


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DigiChromeEd wrote:
RokkorDoctor wrote:
Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Is the mdiii 75-200 f4. 5 the Leica collaboration lens?


I have read conflicting stories here:

- Some claim the earlier MC 80-200 f/4.5 was the first tele-zoom in the Minolta-Leica collaboration. Not too sure about that myself.
- The MD 75-200 f/4.5 is often referred to as a Minolta-Leica collaboration.
- The MD-III 70-210 f/4 is sometimes also mentioned as a Minolta-Leica collaboration. Again, not sure a bout that myself.

Then there is the question as to exactly what entailed this "collaboration" for the various lenses involved (35-70/3.5, 75-200 f/4.5, 16/2.8, 24/2.8 etc.)

- Did the two companies collaborate on the design? (My guess is they are pure Minolta optical calculations)
- Did Minolta manufacture them for Leica? (I doubt they were delivered completely finished to Leica)
- Did Minolta only supply the finished lens groups to Leica and did Leica do the rest of the assembly?

Perhaps other members can confirm some of these details (possibly suggested for a different post though, not to highjack this one Wink )


http://forum.mflenses.com/the-leica-minolta-collaboration-t83263,highlight,%2Bminolta.html


Thanks! I was aware of that thread and had read it, but it still leaves an number questions open. Judging from what I have read there (in particular the quotes from Erin Puts' book) it seems that it depends very much on the particular model lens as to exactly what components Minolta delivered to Leitz and where it was manufactured/assembled.

In any case, to answer Gatorengineer64's original question; yes, the 75-200mm/4.5 is one of (quite a few) lenses involved in the Leitz-Minolta collaboration.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Is the mdiii 75-200 f4. 5 the Leica collaboration lens?


As far as I can remember the previous "Leitz" tele-zoom lenses such as the R 4.5/80-200 and the R 4.5/75-200 simply were based on the corresponding Minolta designs, whereas the optical computation of last one, the MD / R 4/70-210mm, was a Leitz/Minolta cooperation. I heard that Leitz was also involved in improving the performance of the original MD-I 3.5/35-70mm. Probably it was Puts writing it somewhere, but honestly I'm not sure any more about the source. At least it was "serious" source, not just the ordinary net rumours.

S


PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just found I had a MD 75-150 f4 acquired in 2015 for 46UKP, whoppee. Found a metal hood too, on ebay uk 7UKP, may try for a real one before I buy it.
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