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Portraiture lens advice needed
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:20 pm    Post subject: Portraiture lens advice needed Reply with quote
Please advice a portraiture lens in the 75mm-105mm range (preferably up to 90mm) with high contrast, micro contrast and punchy colors.

I am on a limited budget - about $150 so the choice is limited but I am absolutely ready to "compromise" with the currently popular and uninteresting to me lens speed, corner sharpness, brand image and collectors' value in order to broaden the choice a bit.

I tried the SMC Takumar 85mm f/1.8 and it matches my needs fine but it is above my budget, the Contax G Sonnar 90mm f/2.8 seems a good contender so far (I am fine with the way it has to be focused).

I have a Canon FL 85mm f/1.8, Jupiter 9, Orestor 100mm f/2.8, Kaleinar 100mm f/2.8 - they lack the contrast, micro contrast and colors that I am looking for.

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by Dusty-Lens on Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:21 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikkor 105mm/2.5 or even Nikon Series E 100mm/2.8


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alex TG wrote:
Nikkor 105mm/2.5 or even Nikon Series E 100mm/2.8


Thanks!

I have used the Nikkor P 105mm - the older Sonnar scheme by Wakimoto Zenji - I simply love its rendering but it lacks the punchy colors and contrast which I need at the moment. (The same goes to my favorite Nikkor Q C Auto 135mm f/2.8 so I can't use it either.) Which of the newer Xenotar versions has the most contrast and punchy colors?

How does the Nikon E 100mm compare with the Xenotar 105mm in terms of colors and contrast? I know the 105mm is better built and sharper but currently I am looking especially for stronger colors and contrast for a project.

Thanks again!

Last edited by Dusty-Lens on Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tamron adaptall-2 SP 90mm 1:2.5 Tele Macro (52B)


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
Tamron adaptall-2 SP 90mm 1:2.5 Tele Macro (52B)


Thanks, that's a good option within my budget! Do you know if it produces punchier colors and contrast than the T* coated Contax G Sonnar 90mm?


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not Familiar with that lens, but Sonnars usually have very good punch.(At least the 135mm ones I have)


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Kaleinar-5N 100/2.8 is a quite sharp lens. Nikon mount. You should give it a try.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BurstMox wrote:
The Kaleinar-5N 100/2.8 is a quite sharp lens. Nikon mount. You should give it a try.


Thank you. As I already wrote in my post I have the Kaleinar-5H (one of my favorite 100mm lenses - I have even written an extensive article on its very interesting origins, design and history. I can share it if you are interested). Unfortunately as I noted I am not looking for sharpness - in this exact case I am looking for punchy colors and high contrast. While better than most Soviet made lenses in terms of coatings, colors and contrast the Kaleinar still doesn't come close to what I need.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dusty-Lens wrote:
BurstMox wrote:
The Kaleinar-5N 100/2.8 is a quite sharp lens. Nikon mount. You should give it a try.


Thank you. As I already wrote in my post I have the Kaleinar-5H (one of my favorite 100mm lenses - I have even written an extensive article on its very interesting origins, design and history. I can share it if you are interested). Unfortunately as I noted I am not looking for sharpness - in this exact case I am looking for punchy colors and high contrast. While better than most Soviet made lenses in terms of coatings, colors and contrast the Kaleinar still doesn't come close to what I need.


Please share!Smile


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Portraiture lens advice needed Reply with quote
...

Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nikkor Ai(s) 85mm f/2, if you don’t mint some softness wide open. Nikkor 105mm f/2.5.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well if you didn't like the rather good orestor 100mm (but maybe your copy wasn't a particularly good one...) - not easy! But certainly think about trying the kiron and komine macro lenses. The kiron 105mm is sharper usually than the komine made 90mm (vivitar/panagor/elicar etc), both have good colours.
More off-base suggestions like the 16 blade sankor 135mm f3.5 with its great bokeh don't really meet your reqs colours and contrast - more old school character.

Last edited by marcusBMG on Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Portraiture lens advice needed Reply with quote
Blazer0ne wrote:

I don’t know if you can find a Contax Carl Zeiss Sonnar 85mm f2.8 T* for $150. Mine is MMJ has all the contrast and colors compared to the more expensive f1.4.

You can also look at a Leica Super Colorplan P2 90mm f2.5 or regular non-Super P2. Those can be a bargain and have very good results too, but are limited to wide open only.


Some really interesting options, thank you!

The Contax Sonnar 85 is quite more expensive than $150 unlike the Contax G Sonnar 90mm which shouldn't be much inferior.

The projection lenses looks great from what I have seen online but I need the aperture as it is my tool to make sure my subject is completely in focus after framing the shot. But the projection lenses as the Colorplans and the P-Sonnar have great rendering for sure!


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
marcusBMG wrote:
Well if you didn't like the rather good orestor 100mm (but maybe your copy wasn't a particularly good one...) - not easy! But certainly think about trying the kiron and komine macro lenses. The kiron 105mm is sharper usually than the komine made 90mm (vivitar/panagor/elicar etc), both have good colours.
More off-base suggestions like the 16 blade sankor 135mm f3.5 with its great bokeh don't really meet your reqs colours and contrast - more old school character.


Thank you I will check these options and their current prices!

I have a mint Orestor and I have tried several but it sees very little use as the Kaleinar-5H is definitely better in any aspect in my opinion.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
Nikkor Ai(s) 85mm f/2, if you don’t mint some softness wide open. Nikkor 105mm f/2.5.


Thank you! Actually I was just looking at the Nikkor 85mm f/2! Do you know how it compares to the older 85mm f/1.8 Nikkor? I am asking because from the online examples I see the f/1.8 has beautiful rendering but I suppose its older coatings would result in lower contrast and color punch than the newer 85m f/2.

Thanks again!


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dusty-Lens wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
Nikkor Ai(s) 85mm f/2, if you don’t mint some softness wide open. Nikkor 105mm f/2.5.


Thank you! Actually I was just looking at the Nikkor 85mm f/2! Do you know how it compares to the older 85mm f/1.8 Nikkor? I am asking because from the online examples I see the f/1.8 has beautiful rendering but I suppose its older coatings would result in lower contrast and color punch than the newer 85m f/2.

Thanks again!


I think it is a brilliant lens, especially for the price. At f/2 there is some softness; some people may not like it. From f/2.8 on it is very sharp, contrasty with good colors. And very compact.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:

Please share!Smile


Gladly! Here are the key points:

The Caleinar naming is derived from the word Caleidoscope since the Caleinar lens family was initially developed as cine lenses. The K in Kaleinar is due to the translation from the Russian “Калейнар“ but the lens was initially named Caleinar by its author.

The Kaleinar was designed by the German optician Hugo Hahn who was the leading designer at Rüdersdorf Optische Werke AG, Bremen also known as Rüo Optics. Previously he was working at H C. P. Goerz. Hahn pioneered some very interesting and different optical schemes most of which were made for cine cameras. Hahn developed various new designs some of the more interesting are the Equitar, several Caleinars f/1.5- f/2.8 and the Paritar f/1.0.

The Caleinars were mostly 4-element in 4-groups or 5-element 5-groups designs. Several Caleinars came to live in small quantitie in the 1920s and early 1930s: Caleinar 1.8cm f/1.5(supposedly), Caleinar 2.5cm f/2, Caleinar 4cm f/1.5 and Caleinar 5cm f/2.0 but the 10cm f/2.8 design did not come into production back then. Some of these should be in the Vademecum, perhaps the older one.

It is interesting how Hahn's Caleinar lenses became a bridge between the Gundlach Ultrastigmat cine lens and the later Ludwig Bertele's breakthrough masterpiece - the Ernostar. Here is the Caleinar 5cm f/2.0 designed earlier than the Ernostar and basically the same type as the 4-element Ernostar:


In 1934 Rüdersdorf bankrupted and their designs were acquired by Askania-Werke, Berlin who lost interest in some of them and sold them to LOMO St. Petersburg. There they were not produced for quite some time too and much later only one of these designs ever became a 135-format photographic lens: The Kaleinar-5H 100mm f/2.8

An interesting fact is that the documentation published in the USSR for the Kaleinar-5H had a mistake in it. The back of the last element was drawn with a convex back side but it is actually very slightly concave or flat. It is easy to check, I have personally cleaned several of these and am quite sure about that.
The published wrong optical scheme:
How it should actually look:

Last edited by Dusty-Lens on Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another lens to consider maybe: Olympus 100mm f/2.8. It is very sharp wide open, compact and beautifully made.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
Another lens to consider maybe: Olympus 100mm f/2.8. It is very sharp wide open, compact and beautifully made.

caspert79 wrote:

I think it is a brilliant lens, especially for the price. At f/2 there is some softness; some people may not like it. From f/2.8 on it is very sharp, contrasty with good colors. And very compact.


Thanks! I will check out how these perform in terms of color and contrast! I had Nikkor lenses and they had good coatings, thus saturated color rendering as long as I remember.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I did this little test recently:
http://forum.mflenses.com/zuiko-100mm-vs-nikkor-p-105mm-vs-rolleinar-105mm-t83043.html


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
I did this little test recently:
http://forum.mflenses.com/zuiko-100mm-vs-nikkor-p-105mm-vs-rolleinar-105mm-t83043.html


I love such comparisons. The Zuiko seems to have a slight advantage in terms of colors and contrast besides being the sharpest out of these three.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Totally forgot about my Pentax-m 100mm 1:2.8 Look at how well it deals with this situation:

Geranium Bokeh by The lens profile, on Flickr


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
Totally forgot about my Pentax-m 100mm 1:2.8 Look at how well it deals with this situation:


Thanks, an absolutely great idea! It has an excellent MC coating, good contrast and rich colors and for a decent price - this is a really good option!

Do you know how does the M 105/2.8 compare to the K 105/2.8?

Last edited by Dusty-Lens on Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:52 pm; edited 5 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I love my (nowadays crazy-high priced) CZJ Pancolar 80mm 1.8.
It's by far my most used lens for portraits.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dusty-Lens wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
Totally forgot about my Pentax-m 100mm 1:2.8 Look at how well it deals with this situation:


Thanks, an absolutely great idea! It has an excellent MC coating, good contrast and rich colors and for a decent price - this is a really good option!

Do you know how does the M 105/2.8 compare to the K 105/2.8?


The K is the same as the older Takumar version. I think the M 100/2.8 is better than the Takumar (Super, Super-Multi-Coated) Sharper, better micro contrast, better bokeh. It may even outperform the Pentax-m 85mm F2 (which also isn't too costly, usually near €200). But I don't have that one. I just usually find the samples I see of it a bit boring and the bokeh more sticky smooth than airy smooth.
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