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Manual Focus Lens
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:44 am    Post subject: Manual Focus Lens Reply with quote
Hi everyone, I'd like to learn about mid-priced swirly bokeh lenses.
Are there other options besides the Helios line of lenses?
I use SONY A7 MARK II camera


PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Strictly lenses with swirl? Or will lens with some funkiness do?


PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Manual Focus Lens Reply with quote
Cosinon 50mm 1.8 is one example.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
And the Cosinon 50 1.7, which may or may not be the same lens. They're both really swirly.

I actually have both a 1.8 and a 1.7, so you'd think I would compare them someday. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cheap triplets like the Domiplan 50/2.8 and E. Ludwig Meritar 50 2.9 also have swirl. A little less dramatic than the Helios and Cosinon, but they are usually very cheap and they have some addition vintage feel and look because of the simple lens formula.

Meritar:
Bubbles and swirl by The lens profile, on Flickr

Domiplan:
Swirl by The lens profile, on Flickr


PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mamiya 55mm f1.8


#1


PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Minolta MC 55mm F1.7 swirls a little bit too, while still keeping a soft bokeh. Pancolar 50mm F1.8 (newer MC versions or zebra, doesn't matter for this) also swirls. Industar 50-2 (and older 50) swirls when focused close, it's a slow lens but when used for macro it provides plenty of swirly bokeh. There are many lenses with a hint of swirl. Tair 11 (and 11A) is a 135mm lens that's got just a bit of swirl in the corners, looks nice, but it's not "Helios like". Many projector lenses swirl like crazy, and there are some really good ones (like Zeiss Kipronar lenses that remind me of Helios 40). In the end you can always play with masking the edges of the front element with cardboard or something, to increase the mechanical vignetting and create some swirl with any lens.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: Manual Focus Lens Reply with quote
blotafton wrote:
Cosinon 50mm 1.8 is one example.


Not sure if it's true about all of them but at least one version of Revuenon 50mm f1.8 is a rebranded Cosinon. It also swirls a lot (this one is at f2 or f2.8 - don't remember TBH):



PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
Strictly lenses with swirl? Or will lens with some funkiness do?


I think it's a strict lens, there's a swirl when using that lens, but is there a way to make the regular lens have a vortex effect?


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:19 am    Post subject: Re: Manual Focus Lens Reply with quote
blotafton wrote:
Cosinon 50mm 1.8 is one example.


Thanks for your reply, but I need more swirly bokeh than helios, I feel this cosina lens is still unsatisfactory.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
Mamiya 55mm f1.8


#1


Thanks for your reply, but I need more swirly bokeh than helios, I feel this lens is still unsatisfactory.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dejan wrote:
Minolta MC 55mm F1.7 swirls a little bit too, while still keeping a soft bokeh. Pancolar 50mm F1.8 (newer MC versions or zebra, doesn't matter for this) also swirls. Industar 50-2 (and older 50) swirls when focused close, it's a slow lens but when used for macro it provides plenty of swirly bokeh. There are many lenses with a hint of swirl. Tair 11 (and 11A) is a 135mm lens that's got just a bit of swirl in the corners, looks nice, but it's not "Helios like". Many projector lenses swirl like crazy, and there are some really good ones (like Zeiss Kipronar lenses that remind me of Helios 40). In the end you can always play with masking the edges of the front element with cardboard or something, to increase the mechanical vignetting and create some swirl with any lens.


"covering the edges of the front component with cardboard"
Can you tell me more about this, thanks.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:25 am    Post subject: Re: Manual Focus Lens Reply with quote
m__ wrote:
blotafton wrote:
Cosinon 50mm 1.8 is one example.


Not sure if it's true about all of them but at least one version of Revuenon 50mm f1.8 is a rebranded Cosinon. It also swirls a lot (this one is at f2 or f2.8 - don't remember TBH):



I feel that this lens has more spin than cosina, I will try it as a reference.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Manual Focus Lens Reply with quote
Nguyen The Duong wrote:
I feel that this lens has more spin than cosina, I will try it as a reference.


Both wide open.

Revuenon 50/1.8:

Cosinon 50/1.7:




Revuenon at f2:

Cosinon at f2:

Amount of swirl depends on the distance between your main object and the background that swirls, lighting etc. Was trying to keep the same distance for comparative shots but there's slight difference between wide open and f2 shots. And it's also windy and a bit of rain outside, so these aren't perfect.

You decide. Just keep in mind that I'm comparing somewhat different lenses (1.8 and 1.7).


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nguyen The Duong wrote:
Dejan wrote:
Minolta MC 55mm F1.7 swirls a little bit too, while still keeping a soft bokeh. Pancolar 50mm F1.8 (newer MC versions or zebra, doesn't matter for this) also swirls. Industar 50-2 (and older 50) swirls when focused close, it's a slow lens but when used for macro it provides plenty of swirly bokeh. There are many lenses with a hint of swirl. Tair 11 (and 11A) is a 135mm lens that's got just a bit of swirl in the corners, looks nice, but it's not "Helios like". Many projector lenses swirl like crazy, and there are some really good ones (like Zeiss Kipronar lenses that remind me of Helios 40). In the end you can always play with masking the edges of the front element with cardboard or something, to increase the mechanical vignetting and create some swirl with any lens.


"covering the edges of the front component with cardboard"
Can you tell me more about this, thanks.


Sure. I was talking about an improvised front aperture. You can put a disc made of cardboard or any other material in front of your lens and it'll work as a front aperture (F stop depends on the diameter of the hole, F stop = focal length / diameter). You may be familiar with the concept (some also create shaped apertures for "special effects", like heart shaped bokeh and such). Depending on the positioning of this mask and its size you can create some bokeh swirl as well, forcing some mechanical vignetting (which is causing Helios lenses to swirl anyway). I was getting most swirl by placing the mask onto the front end of my lens hood (not the way you want to do it normally, when improvising an aperture). You'd need to experiment to find the right distance and diameter, to create enough swirl without adding too much vignetting to the corners. With a bit of luck you may get acceptable results that won't look overdone. I played with it ages ago and I've managed to force a 50mm F1.4 lens to swirl similarly to some projector lenses. I hope I made some sense in this attempt to explain things, it's so much easier to do these things in person.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Manual Focus Lens Reply with quote
m__ wrote:
Nguyen The Duong wrote:
I feel that this lens has more spin than cosina, I will try it as a reference.


Both wide open.

Revuenon 50/1.8:

Cosinon 50/1.7:




Revuenon at f2:

Cosinon at f2:

Amount of swirl depends on the distance between your main object and the background that swirls, lighting etc. Was trying to keep the same distance for comparative shots but there's slight difference between wide open and f2 shots. And it's also windy and a bit of rain outside, so these aren't perfect.

You decide. Just keep in mind that I'm comparing somewhat different lenses (1.8 and 1.7).


After seeing the two images, the cosina still gave more spin.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dejan wrote:
Nguyen The Duong wrote:
Dejan wrote:
Minolta MC 55mm F1.7 swirls a little bit too, while still keeping a soft bokeh. Pancolar 50mm F1.8 (newer MC versions or zebra, doesn't matter for this) also swirls. Industar 50-2 (and older 50) swirls when focused close, it's a slow lens but when used for macro it provides plenty of swirly bokeh. There are many lenses with a hint of swirl. Tair 11 (and 11A) is a 135mm lens that's got just a bit of swirl in the corners, looks nice, but it's not "Helios like". Many projector lenses swirl like crazy, and there are some really good ones (like Zeiss Kipronar lenses that remind me of Helios 40). In the end you can always play with masking the edges of the front element with cardboard or something, to increase the mechanical vignetting and create some swirl with any lens.


"covering the edges of the front component with cardboard"
Can you tell me more about this, thanks.


Sure. I was talking about an improvised front aperture. You can put a disc made of cardboard or any other material in front of your lens and it'll work as a front aperture (F stop depends on the diameter of the hole, F stop = focal length / diameter). You may be familiar with the concept (some also create shaped apertures for "special effects", like heart shaped bokeh and such). Depending on the positioning of this mask and its size you can create some bokeh swirl as well, forcing some mechanical vignetting (which is causing Helios lenses to swirl anyway). I was getting most swirl by placing the mask onto the front end of my lens hood (not the way you want to do it normally, when improvising an aperture). You'd need to experiment to find the right distance and diameter, to create enough swirl without adding too much vignetting to the corners. With a bit of luck you may get acceptable results that won't look overdone. I played with it ages ago and I've managed to force a 50mm F1.4 lens to swirl similarly to some projector lenses. I hope I made some sense in this attempt to explain things, it's so much easier to do these things in person.


I will try your way, thanks for sharing.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I saw some pics from the Helios 103 53/1.8 today. Maybe even more swirly than the 44. It was out of my scope being a rangefinder lens.

Topic
http://forum.mflenses.com/helios-103-and-sony-a7-t77496.html


PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Meyer optik Trioplan 100 mm.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
papasito wrote:
Meyer optik Trioplan 100 mm.


Nguyen The Duong wrote:
I'd like to learn about mid-priced swirly bokeh lenses.


I wouldn't call $700-$1000 lens "mid-priced".


PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
m__ wrote:
papasito wrote:
Meyer optik Trioplan 100 mm.


Nguyen The Duong wrote:
I'd like to learn about mid-priced swirly bokeh lenses.


I wouldn't call $700-$1000 lens "mid-priced".


I think so too, I think about $100.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nguyen The Duong wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
Strictly lenses with swirl? Or will lens with some funkiness do?


I think it's a strict lens, there's a swirl when using that lens, but is there a way to make the regular lens have a vortex effect?

What lens? OP didn't specify any lens in their post, they are looking for lenses with swirly behavior which requires spherical aberration in the design for it to exist, new lenses don't have it, which is why many newer lens designs look bland to me, I was asking the OPnif they were specifically looking for swirls or will any funkiness fit the bill?
Since the OP hasn't responded I'm not going through the effort to post a list that has lenses they're not interested in, it's just a waste of both of our time.
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