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connloyalist
Joined: 22 Jul 2020 Posts: 221 Location: the Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:30 pm Post subject: Tripod collars before arca swiss |
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connloyalist wrote:
Hi All,
I am hoping someone can fill in some historical blanks for me and provide some advice.
In my collection I have a few lenses that have a provision for attaching a tripod. A few from the 50's/60's simply have a 3/8" (EDIT: actually a 1/4") hole on the bottom without a rotating collar, other 1970's/80's lenses have a variety of collar styles that can be rotated, also with a 3/8" (EDIT: 1/4") hole. None of these have one of those long tripod feet that modern lenses come with.
What I am curious to know is this: back in the day, what was the usual way to make use of this 3/8" (EDIT: 1/4") attachment? (I gather that arca swiss was developed in the 1990's.)
The only thing I can think of is the "ball head" I inherited from my mother on her monopod (yes, a monopod with a ball head). A very small ball head (ball is maybe 10mm?) with a metal post on it with a 3/8" (EDIT: 1/4") screw on the end. You screw this directly into your camera/lens/whatever. No quick release mechanism.
Any suggestions on what is the most efficient and safe way to use this 3/8" (EDIT: 1/4") attachment on the pre-1990's lenses? Long arca swiss plate?
Regards, C.
Last edited by connloyalist on Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Slalom
Joined: 10 Dec 2017 Posts: 151 Location: Stourbridge
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Slalom wrote:
You may get around this 3/8" issue by finding a matching tripod collar:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/114-maintenance-repair-articles/238879-modding-chinese-other-tripod-mounts-fit-eg-adaptall-lenses.html.
You just need about a cm or 0.4 inch cylinder on the lens to put a collar round.
On another track a lot of Ebay Arca swiss plates come with double holes (A dual treaded outer for a standard tread inner) attachment and strange screw fittings. This may yield a solution. |
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connloyalist
Joined: 22 Jul 2020 Posts: 221 Location: the Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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connloyalist wrote:
My mistake: please forget about the 3/8" thing above, I meant 1/4". I got things mixed up, my bad. Makes it confusing I am afraid. I will correct it in the post.
Question remains: what was the usual way of using the 1/4" (!) attachment on these lenses?
Regards, C. |
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DConvert
Joined: 12 Jun 2010 Posts: 901 Location: Essex UK
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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DConvert wrote:
connloyalist wrote: |
My mistake: please forget about the 3/8" thing above, I meant 1/4". I got things mixed up, my bad. Makes it confusing I am afraid. I will correct it in the post.
Question remains: what was the usual way of using the 1/4" (!) attachment on these lenses?
Regards, C. |
The normal way was to screw the tripod directly onto the 1/4-20 thread of the tripod head. If the photographer wished to use a quick release This would have screwed to the lens just as they do today.
The only difference today is that many QR systems are compatible, in the past it seemed every tripod manufacturer had their own design.
The 3/8-16 thread you seem to have been constantly refering to is usually now used for the link between tripod & head but there are a few larger cameras that use them. |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1301 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
The two threads you might find on a collar or tripod mount are UNC (Unified National Coarse) 3/8th inch, and UNC 1/4 inch. Reducers from 3/8 to 1/4 are readily obtainable eg ebay. My old slik tripod has a 3/8" thread screw on the mounting plate, and most ball heads esp the larger ones, seem to have the matching 3/8 female thread. _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10463 Location: California
Expire: 2021-06-22
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:35 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Typically the lens is heavier than the camera, thus mounting the lens, not the camera, on a tripod head was used. If both camera and lens are heavy, something like the arca swiss plate, or sometimes two tripods(!), was used. (Note there are 3/8" to 1/4" and 1/4" to 3/8" adapters if that is a issue.) _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony A7Rii, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Lenses:
Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200
Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300
Macro-Takumar 1:4/50
Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm
Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element),
Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17
Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500
Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100
Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100
SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
Other lenses:
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto
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connloyalist
Joined: 22 Jul 2020 Posts: 221 Location: the Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:31 am Post subject: |
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connloyalist wrote:
I really messed up in this topic. Because of my 3/8" - 1/4" mistake everyone is focusing on that. Please forget about 3/8" and 1/4". Apologies.
My real question is: How did people use the screw mount on the lens before arca swiss was developed in the 1990's? Did ball heads screw directly into the lens just as on my mother's old ball head?
Regards, C. |
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DConvert
Joined: 12 Jun 2010 Posts: 901 Location: Essex UK
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:38 am Post subject: |
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DConvert wrote:
connloyalist wrote: |
I really messed up in this topic. Because of my 3/8" - 1/4" mistake everyone is focusing on that. Please forget about 3/8" and 1/4". Apologies.
My real question is: How did people use the screw mount on the lens before arca swiss was developed in the 1990's? Did ball heads screw directly into the lens just as on my mother's old ball head?
Regards, C. |
There were QR systems back at least as far as the early 80's, but many mounted direct (just as some still do) |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10463 Location: California
Expire: 2021-06-22
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
connloyalist wrote: |
I really messed up in this topic. Because of my 3/8" - 1/4" mistake everyone is focusing on that. Please forget about 3/8" and 1/4". Apologies.
My real question is: How did people use the screw mount on the lens before arca swiss was developed in the 1990's? Did ball heads screw directly into the lens just as on my mother's old ball head?
Regards, C. |
Ball type, other type tripod heads, and adjustable or fixed-length plates having two mounting screws -- one for camera;one for lens -- screw directly into the lens, yes. Sometimes two tripods with heads are used -- one for camera; one for lens.
Perhaps we don't yet understand your intended use and/or the problem. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony A7Rii, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Lenses:
Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200
Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300
Macro-Takumar 1:4/50
Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm
Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element),
Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17
Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500
Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100
Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100
SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
Other lenses:
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 6549 Location: Ireland
Expire: 2013-12-27
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Farside wrote:
connloyalist wrote: |
I really messed up in this topic. Because of my 3/8" - 1/4" mistake everyone is focusing on that. Please forget about 3/8" and 1/4". Apologies.
My real question is: How did people use the screw mount on the lens before arca swiss was developed in the 1990's? Did ball heads screw directly into the lens just as on my mother's old ball head?
Regards, C. |
In the 70s, I had a 400mm tele made by Makinon, if I recall rightly. It wasn't a great lens, but it had a tripod collar that was part of the barrel and simply used the 1/4" mount screw. The base of the collar was a square-ish lump with the thread in the bottom of it.
This old Soligor is similar... but has more of a foot.
Mounting these old lenses on tripods was awkward for moving them around the subject - today's mounts and swivelly things are much better.
http://forum.mflenses.com/soligor-400mm-f6-3-just-another-telephoto-lense-i-thought-t74657.html _________________ Dave - Moderator
Camera Fiend and Biograph Operator
If I wanted soot and whitewash I'd be a chimney sweep and house painter.
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 4747 Location: Cheshire, England
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
if the lens has a non rotating collar the normal thing is to use the vertical flip feature on a normal tripod.
Quick release plates don't really come into the lens fitting. They are, and always have been an optional extra.
Ball and socket heads on monopods are fairly normal. Monopods are particularly unsuitable for pan and tilt heads. _________________ Hero in the 'messin-with-cameras-for-the-hell-of-it department'. Official. |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1301 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:36 am Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
I can't think of a vintage lens I am acquainted with with a tripod mount that didn't connect via 1/4" female thread either to a QR plate or direct to the head on the tripod/monopod.
My old slik SL67 tripod had a video type p+t head with no QR plate but everything else I have used has a QR system. Only my Novo CBH46 ballhead is arca fitting. _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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