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Schneider Kreuznach Xenar 2.8/50mm DIY M39
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 6:19 am    Post subject: Schneider Kreuznach Xenar 2.8/50mm DIY M39 Reply with quote
In the last days I finished the mount of a Schneider Xenar 2.8/50mm
It were made for the AKA Akarelle, Akarette and Arette finder cameras and has a M36 female thread.

In another forum we have had a discuss about the Schneider Super Xenar 2.8/50mm which has five elements and not only four and I said that only the old pre war designs used this layout and the known M42 five element lenses are alike this but only coated.

The post war Xenar lenses with four elements are new computed and using much better glass.

For this I make this lens to give some members of the forum the chance to use a Xenar of the early 1950th with different cameras.
It has a Leica M39 mount and it is coupled with the rangefinder too.

With optional adapters ist can be use with mirrorless cameras systems.



Here´s a first sample I made yesterday with the Sony ILCE-7, it is not sharpened and shows the original rendering. Used aperture were f/2.8



Last edited by arri on Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:56 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting. The AKA cameras were quality little gems. I have numerous AKA lenses and have fabbed an adapter for the main type of odd lens mount system they used, Schneider, Staeble and ISCO. the mount for these consists of a female threaded collar which threads onto male threads on the camera. An index detent and corresponding pin keep the lens oriented properly. Clever, actually as it is a robust mount which uses minimal space and metal. Likely a bit of a challenge to manufacture as the tolerances are very tight. If you have not seen it I highly recommend the write up in CJ's Classic cameras:

http://www.cjs-classic-cameras.co.uk/index.html

Also a DIY of my adaptation here:

http://forum.mflenses.com/akarette-mount-schneider-tele-xenar-90mm-35-via-diy-adapter-t81404.html

Note that the mount for the AKAREX III is different. It is a similar type of collared system but more akin to a 2 lug breech lock. Those are the cameras with the flying finders attached to each lens.


PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Arri

Could I trouble you to post a couple of more shots. I think I might see something special in that lens.....


PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Arri

Could I trouble you to post a couple of more shots. I think I might see something special in that lens.....



+1.-


PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Arri

Could I trouble you to post a couple of more shots. I think I might see something special in that lens.....


Of cause, first I want to show some B&W samples I made yesterday with the 1939 made Leica IIIb.
I start to scan it today.

Than I have a look to the weather, when it is ok I want to start to make some shots with the digicam as well.


PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the ~1956 Paxette version (don't think they differ that much optically) and it's quite interesting indeed.


PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here are three samples I made yesterday.
Ilford FP4+
Wehner Developer
Leica IIIb
Negative scan, Epson V700







PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good work of adaptation which was worth an effort! The rendering reminds me Leitz Colorplan.


PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Samples I made with the Xenar and the Sony ILCE-7A





PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 7:18 pm    Post subject: Which for of the xenar 50 2.8 to buy Reply with quote
Very impressed by this lens, is there ia difference between the Image quaity of this lens in DKL versus say M42? I want to use it on an A7R2. Thanks for opinions

Mark


PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's a write up about the lens: https://casualphotophile.com/2020/05/13/schneider-kreuznach-super-xenar-50mm-f-2-8-lens-review/


PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
Here's a write up about the lens: https://casualphotophile.com/2020/05/13/schneider-kreuznach-super-xenar-50mm-f-2-8-lens-review/


My Xenar ist not a five element lens, it has the normal Tessar design but uses the new glasses which were available in the early 1950th.

The mentioned Super Xenar are only a few lenses which were made in the old prewar design, after 1945 and already coated but it were made only with cron and flint glasses.
It is found in prewar cameras with the name Xenon 2.8/50mm as well. The Xenar 2.8/75mm is a five element Xenar too.

I prefer this new computed postwar Xenar and you can get it for very low prices when you buy it in DKL mount. I guess 20 Bucks or less is realistic.

The AKA mount lenses are more expensive, the M42 mount ones as well.

In optical quality all of it are indentic.

The Xenar for the Braun Paxette is a little bit different but only the focus length, it has 45mm focus but is engraved with 50mm.
All standard lenses for the Paxette rangefinder cameras are only 45mm and not 50mm.

The Tessar clone from Voigtlander, the Color Skopar, is worth to take a look for it. I find it is the best ever made Tessar type lens and you can buy it in DKL mount for the same low price.


PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
arri wrote:

The Xenar for the Braun Paxette is a little bit different but only the focus length, it has 45mm focus but is engraved with 50mm.

I don't know where this info came from, but it is incorrect.
You see, about a year ago I did the comparative test of several 50-55mm lenses. That was done for another reason (rendering test) in the controlled manner (same test scenes, same lighting, same camera position), and even the minor differences in the focal length were extremely noticeable. Six of those lenses are nominally 50mm, but it was obvious that, say, Jupiter-8 is longer (it's a well-known fact that it is actually 52.4mm) and, funnily, Canon FDn 50/1.4 turned out to be slightly wider (about 48.8mm by the rough calculations).
Paxette Xenar 50/2.8 is spot-on 50mm. Maybe in the 49.5-50.5mm range, but definitely not anywhere near 45mm.


PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A 50mm lens needs an extension of around 3mm from oo-1m

I have had several lenses for the Paxette like the Xenar, Tessar, Quinon, and some others, all are marked with 50mm focus length but the extension were around 2,3mm from oo-1m
That is a fact and you can measure it by yourself.
The Paxette lenses which are marked with 45mm having exact the same extension way.

That´s why Iám sure that this lenses don´t have 50mm focus length.


PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's ~2.13mm on my copy.


PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 1:42 pm    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote
Arri,

Thank you for that info and the link to that site, I was unaware of it and it appears to be a wealth of knowledge. I was completely unaware of the S-Xenar, which indeed would be an interesting lens to shoot, but it appears that it would be next to impossible to identify which lenses were the 5 element design.

Mark


PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote
Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Arri,

Thank you for that info and the link to that site, I was unaware of it and it appears to be a wealth of knowledge. I was completely unaware of the S-Xenar, which indeed would be an interesting lens to shoot, but it appears that it would be next to impossible to identify which lenses were the 5 element design.

Mark


A five element Xenar has in the front four bright reflexions and an additional very thin reflexion too, this is the cemented seam between the lens elements.
This is the easiest way and it avoids to unmount the glass elements.
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