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Gatorengineer64
Joined: 26 Oct 2017
Posts: 279
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 Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:54 am Post subject: What are the Ultrons and Alpas at 35MM FL? |
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Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Been playing with vintage glass for a while, and at 50mm I have multiple lenses that are just special, an Alpa and Ultron, and a Minolta 58 1.2, ..... I feel that each of these lenses are very special, and I have shot a bunch that are I would describe as excellent.
I have been through ALOT of 35s and while I have found a number that are pretty good. I cant say that I have found anything that just doesnt want to leave the camera..... Looking for suggestions. For some reason I sold my canon 35 thorium concave and I would say so far that is the closest thing I have found. No need to mention that summi-thingy cant afford one. I havent shot a Biogon, and that is on the list to try
I shoot an A7R2 and I know thats kind of a difficult sensor to make happy, so that may be the issue.
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 7553
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:34 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Biogon? Get a Loxia 35 then!
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:26 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
Well, 35mm is not one of my favorite focus lengths but I own and have tested already a dozen of old MF 35mm lenses on the A7R II.
So far my favorites are the Minolta MD F1.8 and F2.8 versions and in comparison the CV Ultron F1.7 lens.
A quick comparison between the Minolta MD F1.8 and the CV Ultron on the A7R II can be seen here:
http://forum.mflenses.com/minolta-md-35mm-f1-8-vs-cv-35mm-f1-7-on-a7r-ii-t80420.html
This test may also be of help for you: https://lens.ws//minolta-md-35mm-f1-8/
Amongst the "normal" F2.8 versions IMHO the Minolta MD lens is one of the sharpest one. At least I haven't seen a sharper lens in this class yet.
Here is also a thread about this lens on different cameras, the newer postings on the A7 as well: http://forum.mflenses.com/testing-minolta-md-w-rokkor-35mm-2-8-t72692.html
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Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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paulhofseth
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 564
Location: Norway
Expire: 2018-06-28
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:37 am Post subject: pignons made bodies, not lenses |
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paulhofseth wrote:
Sir,
You will not find lenses made by Pignons- They just bought in the optics they found best. The wides for Alpa were mainly made by Schneider and Angenieux , some by Oude Delft and Kilfitt the longer ones by Schneider, Kinoptik, angenieux. kilfitt and Enna
The 50es in the later Alpa models were made by Kern Aarau in the early ones by Angenieux, Berthiot and Schneider When the economic conditions became difficult for "rolls Royce" type optics, they ordered some samples of rollei-singapore made . zeiss licenced ones which they rejected. They switched to using Asahi Takumars with adapters on both ends ( snap-on alpa filters + M42 autoaperture to Alpa bayonet) and just before they went broke they moved all production to Chinon.
If your camera can manage alpamount lenses the wide Angenieux ones may be worth a try, but for the sums that they will cost you could easily get several much more recent constructions.
p. |
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Gatorengineer64
Joined: 26 Oct 2017
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Thanks for the inputs. I did briefly own the retrofocus Angineux 35, it came with a lot of gear.... I couldnt justify it for the price....
i was hoping that someone had a WOW lens at the focal length, but so far no. THe minolta maybe an option havent tried that but frankly the images i have seen while competent, arent show stoppers. Currently I have the beast 35 1.4 Sony which is a Meh lens, would like to replace it with a wow lens....
Be interested in seeing if the chinese have a winner in the upcoming 35 F4 CV APO lens or not.... not seeing any pre-release sample photos as of yet.
So at 24 or 28 or even 32 what are the wow lenses? I have a zeiss distagon 32, which I really like but at 2.8 its a bit slow. Also have the Minolta 28, which I really like....
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marius.zaech
Joined: 27 Jan 2021
Posts: 53
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:46 am Post subject: |
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marius.zaech wrote:
The Minolta MC 35/1.8 would be my pick too... Sharp, contrasty, nice rendering, mechanical build quality top notch and when shot wide open at minimum focus distance it can also be "expressive" (glowy). Only downside is that it flares from the slightest bit of side light.
There are many nice 35's in the 2.8 range but they are mostly just solid performers, no WOW-factor. I had the Yashica 35/2.8 which was pleasant and is said to be close in performance to the Contax Zeiss one.
Same with 28mm... an exceptional one (and one of my most used lenses) is the Zeiss 28/2.8, if you like a bit of a funky approach i can recommend the vivitar series 1 28/1.9
I've never tried the beasts in this category such as 35/1.4 from Zeiss or Nikon or even the 24/1.4 from Canon. But for that money you can easily get a modern computation. |
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Macca
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 248
Location: Glasgow, Scotland.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Macca wrote:
Contax Zeiss Distagon 35mm 1.4. Lovely rendering.
Like you have had no `wow` and more than a few `is that it?`from a few I`ve tried including Samyang 35mm 1.4, Zeiss distagon zf.2 35mm f2, Sony 35mm 1.4 G (AF), various oldies from yashinons, fujinons, topcor, komura, minolta etc (except the lovely Minolta 35mm f2 AF, regret selling that now we have monster and laea5 adapters)
I was thinking me and 35mm don`t get on `til i found it.It`s hard to find one at a decent price but I got mine around 500gbp with patience. Worth the wait.
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Sony A7iii.
CZ Distagon 15mm 2.8,Loxia 25mm 2.4,RE Auto Topcor 35mm 2.8,Contax Zeiss 35mm1.4,Minolta M Rokkor 40mm f2, Jupiter 3 50mm 1.5, Kuribayashi CC Petri Orikkor 50mm 2,Topcor S 50mm f2,Topcor RE GN 50mm 1.8,RE Auto Topcor 58mm 1.4, Helios 44m 2,Steinheil Munchen Auto Quinon 55m 1.9,Olympus auto g zuiko 60mm f1.5 ,KMZ PO2-2M 75mm F2,Jupiter 9 85mm f2(Arsenal Kiev),RE Auto Topcor 85mm 1.8,Leica Elmarit 90mm 2.8 R, RE Auto Topcor 100mm 2.8,Meyer Orestor 100mm 2.8,,F.B.R.105mm 2.4, RE Auto Topcor 135mm 3.5,Leica Elmarit R 135mm 2.8,Steinheil Munchen Quinar VL 135mm 2.8,Contax Zeiss 100-300mm 4.5-5.6, Vernon Edonar 350mm 5.5 |
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
The Minolta MD W Rokkor 35mm f2.8 lens was also released in a Minolta Celtic version.
I have it.
Minolta MD Celtic 35mm f2.8 with the 49mm filter thread.
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Main cameras
Panasonic G5,Nikon J1,Pentax Q10,Sony Nex 6
Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
MD 28-70 f3.5-4.8, MD Macro 35-70 f3.5, Md 70-210 f4, MD Rokkor X 75-200 f4.5, MD 100-200 f5.6
Nikon Nikkor 4/20, O Auto 2/35, S Auto 1.4/50..... Miranda Auto 2.8/28, Auto 2.8/35, Auto 1.4/50, Auto EC 1.4/50, Auto 1.8/50, Auto EC 1.8/50,Auto 1.9/50, Auto 3.5/135
Various Soligor,Sun,Fujita,Komura,Spitatone, etc. Lenses
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jamaeolus
Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 2927
Location: Eugene
Expire: 2015-08-20
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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jamaeolus wrote:
I also favor the zeiss distagon 35mm 1.4. It's a fantastic optic. It is a bit on the large and heavy end but, as stated above, fantastic rendering. I like the photos better even than those from the minolta md 35mm 1.8
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 1658
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
My Sony zeiss 35/1,4 ZA is, by far better rendering (specially in CA and borders sharpness) than my copy of distagon 35 c/y.
I hope that the GM version is better than both. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| Gatorengineer64 wrote: |
I have been through ALOT of 35s and while I have found a number that are pretty good. I cant say that I have found anything that just doesnt want to leave the camera ...
I shoot an A7R2 and I know thats kind of a difficult sensor to make happy, so that may be the issue. |
It of course depends on what you want to shoot. For me there are two main fields for using a 35mm wideangle:
1) landscape
2) reportage
The best vintage 35mm lens for landscape I know is the Minolta MD 2.8/35mm (its [5/5] construction was also available as a late MC-X version). I have compared it side-by-side with the Sony Zeiss Sonnar FE 2.8/35mm, and it is as sharp and contratsy as the Zeiss (43 MP FF, Sony A7RII):
http://artaphot.ch/minolta-sr/objektiv-vergleiche/434-sony-a7rii-and-summilux-1-4-35mm-asph-sony-zeiss-fe-2-8-35mm-and-minolta-md-2-8-35mm
When talking about fast 35mm vintage lenses, it's often more about "character" than about resolution. Since "character" is very subjective, it's best to have a side-by-side comparison. I have published this one earlier on here on mflenses, but I include it again (CLICK TWICE FOR FULL RESOLUTION):
Apart from theses lenses i have tested also the Carl Zeiss Distagon CY 1.4/35mm, which is quite a bit better than the Nikkor shown here - but not really better than the two Minolta 1.8/35mm (MC, MD) shown here as well. Which means I didn't spend the CHF 650.-- or so just for putting then lens in a shelve ...
| marius.zaech wrote: |
| The Minolta MC 35/1.8 would be my pick too... Sharp, contrasty, nice rendering, mechanical build quality top notch and when shot wide open at minimum focus distance it can also be "expressive" (glowy). Only downside is that it flares from the slightest bit of side light. |
My pick as well - see above comparison.
| marius.zaech wrote: |
There are many nice 35's in the 2.8 range but they are mostly just solid performers, no WOW-factor. I had the Yashica 35/2.8 which was pleasant and is said to be close in performance to the Contax Zeiss one.
Same with 28mm... an exceptional one (and one of my most used lenses) is the Zeiss 28/2.8, if you like a bit of a funky approach i can recommend the vivitar series 1 28/1.9 |
My Yashica ML 2.8/35mm is the 6L version (there's also a 7L version which may be better). While it is good, it is not as good as the Minolta MC/MD 28/35mm [5L]. The earlier Minolta MC 2.8/35mm [7L] versions as well as the Konica AR 2.8/35mm [7L] are "character lenses" as well; they are not as "clinically sharp" as the MD 2.8/35mm, have lower contrast and - to a certain degree - some "glow". The Pentax-M 2.8/35mm is a nice lens as well, similar to the Yashica mentioned. I don't know the Canon nFD 2.8/35mm (supposedly very sharp as well) and the different incarnations of the 2.8/35mm Nikkors (several computations).
| marius.zaech wrote: |
| I've never tried the beasts in this category such as 35/1.4 from Zeiss or Nikon or even the 24/1.4 from Canon. But for that money you can easily get a modern computation. |
I own the Nikkor AiS 1.4/35mm (which is a slightly improved computation compared to the original pre-Ai), and I've been testing both the Zeiss CY 1.4/35mm and the Canon FD 1.4/24mm L. The Zeiss is the best of these three lenses; both the Nikkor as well as the Canon L are pretty "characterful" (I would prefer to say "lousy", but that's not something you say here ...). Same for the Nikkor AiS 2/24mm btw, but that's off topic for sure.
S
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Gatorengineer64
Joined: 26 Oct 2017
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Gatorengineer64 wrote:
SteveMark,
Thanks for a thorough and thoughtful reply. I really like the Minolta 35 F2.8 and probably will pick one up. I do note that from your web like the Summicron 35, is likely the special lens, as to be expected by its reputation. Its not in the cards, but the colors and something about the rendering are probably what I am looking for. But this lens is definitely out of my range, so the Minolta 2.8 looks like a good choice. Not impressed by the 1.8 wide open....
Thanks again.
Mark
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 1120
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:11 am Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
I had c/y 35mm 2.8 very good , but the Flektogon 2.4 it's pretty close also , still prefer the 28mm range . |
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Ernst Dinkla
Joined: 30 Nov 2016
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:02 am Post subject: Mamiya Sekor CS 35mm 2.8 |
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Ernst Dinkla wrote:
Good to read this thread to find competition for the 35mm that I think is perfect, the Mamiya Sekor CS 35mm 2.8. I have to check that lens against another recommended 35mm to be sure that I am not mistaken about its quality.
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benadamx
Joined: 25 Feb 2019
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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benadamx wrote:
maybe slightly out of bounds, but my favorite 35mm currently is my tamron SP 01 35mm-80mm f/2.8 at the 35mm end, even compared to the minolta MD 35mm f/2.8 prime of the same era, i find the color, sharpness, rendering, and especially delicate microcontrasts to be extremely pleasing - zoom and close focus are added bonuses. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10531
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Have you tried "fat boy" Super-Takumar 1:2/35? Much better than later versions of Takumars imho. https://takumarguide.weebly.com/1--2--35-model-i-368.html
#1
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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jamaeolus
Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 2927
Location: Eugene
Expire: 2015-08-20
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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jamaeolus wrote:
Gorgeous photo of a gorgeous (and somewhat mysterious!) Cat.
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Gatorengineer64
Joined: 26 Oct 2017
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:30 pm Post subject: Super tak 67 F2 |
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Gatorengineer64 wrote:
I never tried the Fat F2, I did have the SMC 2.0, and the 2.3 and 3.5 The 2.3 version I had had a ding in the filter ring indicating a whack, and perhaps thats why it wasnt stellar it was solid but not spectacular. The 2.0 skinny was just OK, the reviews are all over the map on the 2.3 fat, dont really recall the 3.5 other than I had it, must have made an impression.....
Your pic says its pretty sharp, and i like the bubbles but the reviews are quite mixed. WIll do some homework this might be what I was looking for.
Another interesting but expensive lens is the Fuji 35 F2 screwmount. Expensive.... and little reviewed..... But my first 35 was an AX-3 so fujis have a place in my heart.....
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 1658
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
| Gatorengineer64 wrote: |
SteveMark,
Thanks for a thorough and thoughtful reply. I really like the Minolta 35 F2.8 and probably will pick one up. I do note that from your web like the Summicron 35, is likely the special lens, as to be expected by its reputation. Its not in the cards, but the colors and something about the rendering are probably what I am looking for. But this lens is definitely out of my range, so the Minolta 2.8 looks like a good choice. Not impressed by the 1.8 wide open....
Thanks again.
Mark |
Simply Leica |
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KEO
Joined: 27 Sep 2018
Posts: 760
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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KEO wrote:
Meyer-Optik 35mm Primagon f/4.5 |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 3678
Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:58 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
| Gatorengineer64 wrote: |
I never tried the Fat F2, I did have the SMC 2.0, and the 2.3 and 3.5 The 2.3 version I had had a ding in the filter ring indicating a whack, and perhaps thats why it wasnt stellar it was solid but not spectacular. The 2.0 skinny was just OK, the reviews are all over the map on the 2.3 fat, dont really recall the 3.5 other than I had it, must have made an impression.....
WIll do some homework this might be what I was looking for. |
I own this fat Super Takumar 35mm/F2. It offers a lot of "character" when used wide open. However, to achieve sharp landscapes from corner to corner on the Sony A7R II it has to be used at F8.
The Minolta AF 35mm/F2 offers better landscape performance at F4.
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Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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tomasg
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 1135
Expire: 2014-04-28
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:02 am Post subject: |
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tomasg wrote:
no text
Last edited by tomasg on Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:24 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 2491
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:13 am Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
The Takumars mentioned are mainly known for their bokeh effects. Stopped down they are just good 35mm's. But you then can also use the (Super) M-C) Takumar 35mm 1:3.5 which is excellent.
Carl Zeiss Jena DDR Flektogon 2.4/35 MC is of course one of the most famous 35mm in m42 land.
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