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the evergreen Apo Telyt 180mm 1:3.4
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:55 am    Post subject: the evergreen Apo Telyt 180mm 1:3.4 Reply with quote

Wide open, on my Canon EOS R. Edited at taste from RAW, not sharpened at all.[/img]
#1


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on ... Italy has nicer buildings than that one Laugh 1 ... and I think the Apo Telyt deserves a nicer building!! Like this one for instance Wink



(image above NOT taken with a APO Telyt)

S


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laugh 1 Laugh 1 Laugh 1

I always wondered when people have so super lenses and nothing to photograph...


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
Laugh 1 Laugh 1 Laugh 1

I always wondered when people have so super lenses and nothing to photograph...


That's of course what some people here may think of me ... problem is I prefer DSLRs (and especially the A900) for real world photography, as much as I love testing and comparing vintage gear with the A7 series. Which means that all my "nice" images usually are taken with DSLRs and AF lenses, and the "boring" testing pics with vintage gear. And testing, of course, is done when the light is not perfect!

The image above (Assisi) is basically a JPG out of the A900 (camera settings carefully adjusted, of course) using the Minolta AF 2.8/200 APO G HS.

The image below, also a JPG taken with the A900, was made with Minolta AF 2.8/300mm APO G HS wide open (@ f2.8 ). I have tested quite a few high end cameras side-by-side with the a900 during the last ten years*, but for landscapes usually the A900 colors win. That's why I still use my three A900 series DSLRs (and handling, of course, is much nicer than with the Canon / Nikon DSLRs, let alone the A7 seeries). My A7 series cameras are used mostly for testing and for architectural images (with the Canon 4/17mm L shift). In adition the A7 series is better for indoor stuff (frescoes and the like) if a tele lens >200mm is required. Its electronic shutter cancels all vibrations. Shooting at speeds between 1/50 s and 0.5 s with 400 mm and 600 mm tele lenses using the A900 is nearly impossible, even with MLU.

* Canon EOS 5 DS R, Fuji GFX, Leica S, Nikon D800 series, Sony A7R / A7RII, and others




But now we're really off topic. Sorry.

S


Last edited by stevemark on Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
Laugh 1 Laugh 1 Laugh 1

I always wondered when people have so super lenses and nothing to photograph...


Are you talking about my picture? just to know.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
Come on ... Italy has nicer buildings than that one Laugh 1 ... and I think the Apo Telyt deserves a nicer building!! Like this one for instance Wink



(image above NOT taken with a APO Telyt)

S


You know, Steve, I have tons of wow postacards. If you have time to waste you can check this FB album for instance:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?vanity=1446552498928879&set=a.1527204727530322

Nevertheless, I also find many meanings in a poor tin hut built by a farmer, in the bricks placed in an attempt to protect it from the wind, in the colours and materials that unconsciously seem to cite examples of informal art; for me this too is photography, and this too is aesthetics. In fact, it is much more sophisticated to look for beauty where for many people it is not there than where everyone sees it. But I honestly didn't think I had to defend my personal choices in proposing a shot whose rendering struck me. I will take this into account in the future.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:

You know, Steve, I have tons of wow postacards. If you have time to waste you can check this FB album for instance:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?vanity=1446552498928879&set=a.1527204727530322

Nevertheless, I also find many meanings in a poor tin hut built by a farmer, in the bricks placed in an attempt to protect it from the wind, in the colours and materials that unconsciously seem to cite examples of informal art; for me this too is photography, and this too is aesthetics. In fact, it is much more sophisticated to look for beauty where for many people it is not there than where everyone sees it. But I honestly didn't think I had to defend my personal choices in proposing a shot whose rendering struck me. I will take this into account in the future.


+1

This image is aesthetically perfect and mind stimulating, besides the fact that it shows very well the lens' potential.

Klaus, Stephan, I am a bit estonished to read that restrictive judgment launched by you, experimented and respected forum members. Imagine what kind of war bursts out if we start judging each others' choice of subjects, locations and shots imperfections.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:23 am    Post subject: Re: the evergreen Apo Telyt 180mm 1:3.4 Reply with quote

...

Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
Come on ... Italy has nicer buildings than that one Laugh 1 ... and I think the Apo Telyt deserves a nicer building!! Like this one for instance Wink



(image above NOT taken with a APO Telyt)

S


Nice. I just love Florence, so beautiful the city is.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that shed picture is beautiful and interesting.

#1


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you to those who expressed their thoughts.
I would like to add another image taken on the same day, also wide open, totally unprocessed.
#1


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like 1 Like 1


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the shed and it is a very good subject to show what the lens is capable of.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said in a previous posting, when testing and comparing lenses I usually do it on dull days and with easily accessible subjects which have enough details / structure/colors to show what I want to show. In short: these (my) images look extremely boring, but they give me all the information about a lens I want or need to know.


Ultrapix wrote:

You know, Steve, I have tons of wow postacards. If you have time to waste you can check this FB album for instance:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?vanity=1446552498928879&set=a.1527204727530322


Link currently doesn't work - facebook says "we're working on it" Laugh 1
But I'll check again later, for sure!

Ultrapix wrote:
Nevertheless, I also find many meanings in a poor tin hut built by a farmer, in the bricks placed in an attempt to protect it from the wind, in the colours and materials that unconsciously seem to cite examples of informal art; for me this too is photography, and this too is aesthetics.


I ususally prefer things made carefully . To make it clear: You can use even the simplest and poorest raw materials and carefully make the best out of it. Look at the ancient buildings in Assisi: Local stones for the hillside of mount Subasio, a bit of sand and burnt lime ... nothing special at all, but yet what an incredible beauty you Umbrians did create out of that!

Ultrapix wrote:

In fact, it is much more sophisticated to look for beauty where for many people it is not there than where everyone sees it.

Yes, it is. Sebastiao Salgado, for instance, is an incredible Master being able to discover beauty even in the worst possible circumstances.

When i'm doing real photograhy (not lens testing!), the image itself should be nice to look at: It should "give people hope" as HH the Dalai Lama once said about an artists responsibilities. Of course I may show a small little cottage, or poor people, or whatever difficult situations we experience daily. But my image should kind of transform something "bad" into something uplifting, encouraging, or maybe even heart-warming. If I'm not doing (or at least sincerely trying) that, I feel I've failed.

That's my aim - I rarely reach it, though ...! Google the images of Sebastiao Salgado, for instance. He has an incredible mental will and energy to transform even the worst possible situation, and to give people hope. Or Dorothea Lange (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothea_Lange#/media/Datei:Migrant_Mother_1936_3.jpg). Or Werner Bischof (https://www.lempertz.com/en/catalogues/lot/1068-1/127-werner-bischof.html) or René Burri who lived in a neighboring village until he died a few years ago (https://www.bildhalle.ch/photo/data/Copyright--Rene-Burri-Magnum-Photos-Ministerio--Rio-de-Janeiro-courtesy-of-bildhalle-752px_9379_2.jpg?ts=1611145672).

So - nothing wrong with choosing your cottage, but more work needed to make it a great image Wink. And again, my initial remark was written quite light-heartedly, with a smile and a joking attitude. Don't take it too seriously - i'm pretty sure talking to each other (or even taking images together) we would have a lot of fun!

Ultrapix wrote:
But I honestly didn't think I had to defend my personal choices in proposing a shot whose rendering struck me. I will take this into account in the future.

Well - that particular shot didn't strike me. Of course there will be some people somewhere willing to pay a lot money for such images, as long as you (or someone else) hypes then long enough Wink. However, this one simply doesn't fit my criteria for an interesting, stimulating, encouraging or whatever image.


Now I have access to your facebook site, and now we can compare how you and how I do work with the same subject:

Your image:
https://web.facebook.com/Sante-Castignani-Photography-1446552498928879/photos/a.1527204727530322/1551388655111929
g

My image:


1) First I chose the subject. Same as yours Wink

2) Then I carefully check the standpoint from where "it looks best". I know the particular position quite well where you took your image. However I wasn't satisfied with that view and looked for a place where the Basilica of San Francesco and the town of Assisi would be better visible and more "in harmony" with the rest of the monastery. In addition I tried to position the two towers of the Rocca above Assisi in a way not to disturb the remaining image.

3) Then I had to carefully frame the shot and to choose the right focal length (wide - normal - tele?). About 190mm was best in this case (the Minolta AF 2.8/200mm APO is not really a 200mm lens!)

3) Having found the "right" position and the right "framing", I had to wait for a clear day and for the right time (right balance between blueish evening light and artificial yellow light!).

4) Then I did a lot of tweaking the A900 to make things look nice: Lens, aperture setting, color settings, contrast, microcontrast, slight underexposure, image mode, and a few more things you can adjust on the A900 (but not on the A7 /A9 series). That needs quite a bit of experience, and I did publish my findings in my large book about the A900 (free download here: http://artaphot.ch/minolta-sony-af/alpha-systembuch)

5) Finally the JPG "out of camera" was adjusted to give it the final touch I wanted for printing. This (processed) image was used for a large size (40 x 60cm) calendar; since the offset printing colors never look as bright as the corresponding screen (RGB) colors, I made the colors looking brighter than I would for an "ideal" website image. Which means the image posted here looks slightly too colorful on my (calibrated) screen, but just right when printed with special UV/LED colors.

S


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
Thank you to those who expressed their thoughts.
I would like to add another image taken on the same day, also wide open, totally unprocessed.
#1


This image, IMHO, does show better the full potential of the APO Telyt 3.4/180mm (which I happened to shoot once for a short time). It a realy beautiful lens, especially regarding its age (developped nearly 50 years ago). I though about one maybe two years ago when there was a nice sample available here at my favourite photo store. Hesitating a bit too long, the other day it was gone. Using it shortly on the A7 series, I noticed that the 3.4/180mm APO Telyt wide open has nearly the same amount of lateral CAs as my Minolta AF 2.8/200mm APO. Yet your image is completely free of lateral CAs. Does the Canon R remove CAs from its JPGs (as do the Nikons starting from the D3 series)?

S


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
I think that shed picture is beautiful and interesting.

#1


Laugh 1 Laugh 1 Laugh 1

Methinks that little small black dot on the meadow is intriguing.

What could it be? And what meaning does it actually convey to the observer? Was it intentionally positioned there by the photographer, or was is just sitting there and the photographer simply dicovered it?

Wink S


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does the Canon R remove CAs from its JPGs (as do the Nikons starting from the D3 series)?


Only with original lenses


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blazer0ne wrote:
As a technical art, photography most always invites itself into such conversations. It would be absurd to think otherwise. I could go on about this in every thread.

There is an entire universe in between "technical" and "art", but we all share that common interest of photography. What drags me down is when photographers are stuck being defensive instead of expressive.

Cheers


No doubt, but let me say that the place where a comparison takes shape is very important; if you want to discuss about photographic criticism, I would start from images designed for such purpose, of which this section of the forum, for obvious reasons, is quite lacking. Most of the images that appear on these pages are deliberately devoid of aesthetic appeal, having as their sole purpose to show one of the thousands possible uses of a specific lens.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
Blazer0ne wrote:
As a technical art, photography most always invites itself into such conversations. It would be absurd to think otherwise. I could go on about this in every thread.

There is an entire universe in between "technical" and "art", but we all share that common interest of photography. What drags me down is when photographers are stuck being defensive instead of expressive.

Cheers


No doubt, but let me say that the place where a comparison takes shape is very important; if you want to discuss about photographic criticism, I would start from images designed for such purpose, of which this section of the forum, for obvious reasons, is quite lacking. Most of the images that appear on these pages are deliberately devoid of aesthetic appeal, having as their sole purpose to show one of the thousands possible uses of a specific lens.


Perhaps in the Art talk section or the C&C Gallery?


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultrapix wrote:
Most of the images that appear on these pages are deliberately devoid of aesthetic appeal, having as their sole purpose to show one of the thousands possible uses of a specific lens.


I completely agree - as I told before, I rarely use vitage gear to create my "good" photos. I'll do that with my "modern" AF lenses and thus can't discuss these images here on "mflenses.com".

My interest in vintage tech stuff comes more from a technical (and partly historical) point of view, since I've studied chemistry and later worked in the field between chemistry and physics. Mechanical stuff, optics, glasses, rare earth elements, crystals and the like have fascinated me since i was a kid. And some of these things I can discuss here. Science, if well done, is an Art in itself.

S


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adopting a 'tude is always risky...and always is revealing of character -- some folks think they are better than others. Better at some things, yes, that is always the case. However the 'tude is often a judgement. I'm constantly reminded of one of Emperor Ashoka's Rock Edicts which warns how poo-pooing another's religion denigrates one's own. Ashoka said it much more eloquently in the original Sanskrit -- Rock Edict Seven, iirc.

EDIT: Rock Edict Twelve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Rock_Edicts#Major_Rock_Edict_12
Quote:
... For whosoever praises his own sect or blames other sects, — all (this) out of pure devotion to his own sect, (i.e.) with the view of glorifying his own sect, — if he is acting thus, he rather injures his own sect very severely. ...


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
Ultrapix wrote:
Most of the images that appear on these pages are deliberately devoid of aesthetic appeal, having as their sole purpose to show one of the thousands possible uses of a specific lens.


I completely agree - as I told before, I rarely use vitage gear to create my "good" photos. I'll do that with my "modern" AF lenses and thus can't discuss these images here on "mflenses.com".

My interest in vintage tech stuff comes more from a technical (and partly historical) point of view, since I've studied chemistry and later worked in the field between chemistry and physics. Mechanical stuff, optics, glasses, rare earth elements, crystals and the like have fascinated me since i was a kid. And some of these things I can discuss here. Science, if well done, is an Art in itself.

S


Sure. Especially if it does not lock itself in its own enclosure. I am a follower of Robert Pirsig, and I believe that the various human attitudes are mutually supportive and should never overwhelm each other.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
Adopting a 'tude is always risky...and always is revealing of character -- some folks think they are better than others. Better at some things, yes, that is always the case. However the 'tude is often a judgement. I'm constantly reminded of one of Emperor Ashoka's Rock Edicts which warns how poo-pooing another's religion denigrates one's own. Ashoka said it much more eloquently in the original Sanskrit -- Rock Edict Seven, iirc.

EDIT: Rock Edict Twelve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Rock_Edicts#Major_Rock_Edict_12
Quote:
... For whosoever praises his own sect or blames other sects, — all (this) out of pure devotion to his own sect, (i.e.) with the view of glorifying his own sect, — if he is acting thus, he rather injures his own sect very severely. ...


Noble thoughts Like 1 small


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
Rock Edict Twelve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Rock_Edicts#Major_Rock_Edict_12
Quote:
... For whosoever praises his own sect or blames other sects, — all (this) out of pure devotion to his own sect, (i.e.) with the view of glorifying his own sect, — if he is acting thus, he rather injures his own sect very severely. ...


Hm, Ashoka seemed to be a good judge of photography!