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Two overlooked gems: Brasov with Leica Summitar 5o/2
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:25 pm    Post subject: Two overlooked gems: Brasov with Leica Summitar 5o/2 Reply with quote

The bizarre ways of life have brought me to the Romanian town of Brasov, and to the Leica Summitar, the often unloved 5o/2 predecessor of the famous Summicron. A walk through the town, at the same time a test run with the Summitar, have shown me two rather overlooked gems - the town, with its charm and not-yet-disneyland restoration, as opposed to so many old towns. And the lens, with its charm, flaws and magic.
Separation is surprisingly low for both a Leica* and a 5o/2, and centre sharpness seems optimal around f/5.6 whilst corner sharpness requires f/11, which already heavily diffracts the centre and still does not render the corners properly sharp.
But look at that bokeh and character. The Summicron might be better technically. Yet I once owned a Summicron and sold it, finding it boring. I can't know the bizarre ways of life, but right now, I see no intention of ever selling the Summitar...
*I once had an opportunity to compare the Canon FD 5o/1.4 to the Leica Noctilux 5o/1, which at f/2 shows as much separation (i.e. shallow depth of field) as the FD at 1.4! Haven't compared FD and Summitar yet.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are those saturated colors out of the lens or from post processing?


PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbass wrote:
Are those saturated colors out of the lens or from post processing?


Differences in lens colors are rather subtle as long as we are talking about coated (and clean!) lenses. They do exist - e. g. my Canon FD lenses usually being duller than the corrsponding Minolta MC/MD lenses -, but they often can be seen only when comparing the lenses side-by-side under identical circumstances.

This, in turn, means that most images above are heavily processed Wink

S


PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Summitart is overlooked by most because it's just not that good. When compared to other early double gauss type designs such as the Ultron 2/50, Xenon 2/50 and Septon 2/50- it's just not that good - poor edges and field curvature being noticeable weaknesses. If people wanted a 50 with character, then the Sonnar offered more for less money, so where was the Summitar's niche? Too expensive for it's abilities.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
cbass wrote:
Are those saturated colors out of the lens or from post processing?


Differences in lens colors are rather subtle as long as we are talking about coated (and clean!) lenses. They do exist - e. g. my Canon FD lenses usually being duller than the corrsponding Minolta MC/MD lenses -, but they often can be seen only when comparing the lenses side-by-side under identical circumstances.

This, in turn, means that most images above are heavily processed Wink

S


You are mostly correct, but I have seen exceptions specifically with Leica/Leitz lenses where the color saturation was almost unreal. But this is with more modern lenses and not older ones. Still, I think you are correct here as this is over the top even for a modern Leica when it comes to color. Those greens do not look natural.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="cbass"]
stevemark wrote:
I have seen exceptions specifically with Leica/Leitz lenses where the color saturation was almost unreal


1) Did you see a side-by-side comparison on the same camera (!) with other lenses?
2) Which camera(s) was/were used?
3) What were the settings of the camera used?

Of course - by tweaking RAW data and their "development" one can make a certain camera/lens combination looking "almost unreal". Question remains whether "almost unreal" is also looking good ...

I remember the typical "Nikon green" around 2012 - everything slightly greenish seemed to get that same intense green color on Nikon DSLR images. All nuances lost, and a big difference to the Konica/Minolta (and to soime extent also early Sony) approach.

S


PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those reds on the roofs are overly saturated, cartoonish like.
No calibrated monitor? Or IPS at least?


PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but these colors are just horrible! They hurt my eyes!


PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, certainly over-saturated, but nevertheless brings up nice memories from having visited beautiful Brasov and its German history...


PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="stevemark"]
cbass wrote:
stevemark wrote:
I have seen exceptions specifically with Leica/Leitz lenses where the color saturation was almost unreal


1) Did you see a side-by-side comparison on the same camera (!) with other lenses?
2) Which camera(s) was/were used?
3) What were the settings of the camera used?

Of course - by tweaking RAW data and their "development" one can make a certain camera/lens combination looking "almost unreal". Question remains whether "almost unreal" is also looking good ...

I remember the typical "Nikon green" around 2012 - everything slightly greenish seemed to get that same intense green color on Nikon DSLR images. All nuances lost, and a big difference to the Konica/Minolta (and to soime extent also early Sony) approach.

S


It depends on which part you are in disbelief about. My comment of color saturation being almost unreal or that there can be differences in saturation and color between lenses. When I say almost unreal, I don't mean anything close to the originally posted pictures.

As for your bullet points 1-3. I always do a controlled test to confirm. I use the same settings. Shutter speed. ISO. Aperture. Manually set white balance. I used a Fuji X-T1 APS-C camera, but also see the same results with a Fuji GFX 50s. I would have to look up the exact settings, but they were the same.

The camera body especially with film simulations is steering the colors in a certain direction especially when it comes to JPEG's. The RAW file is better, but almost any mainstream processing software that you use is doing the same thing via a default profile.

My classic comparison was a Summicron-R 90 pre-asph to a Elmarit-R 90 Version 2. The yellow and blue was obviously different between the two lenses. There is a long color analysis on the Summilux-M 75. My Summicron-R 90 pre-asph behaves very similar to what is described there. The best description is saturated pastels. The Elmarit has strongly vibrant colors in comparison.

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/leica-m-summilux-75mm-f1-4/#Color

My Leica R 35-70 F4 in comparison has even more strongly saturated colors. I have compared this against my Zeiss Contax 35-70 F3.4, which is not a muted lens, but not nearly as saturated.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most probably Kathala is a fan of Ken Rockwell Laugh 1


PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hasenbein wrote:
Most probably Kathala is a fan of Ken Rockwell Laugh 1


Ken Rockwell was the original Peter Lik. If he had a better website and marketing skills he could have made the big bucks instead.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While everyone has the right to express their own point of view, it seems to me that the critical reactions to these images are excessive. The colour interpretation is clearly personal (author's choice), and hardly suitable to show the qualities of a lens, but it is consistently expressed and although it does not meet my taste it has its own logic. These are images that proposed in a less 'technical' context would have full rights