| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019
Posts: 441
|
 Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:23 pm Post subject: What is this optical formula? |
 |
|
cbass wrote:
4 element 4 groups
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 2491
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
D1N0 wrote:
Looks like a typical medium tele. 135mm
_________________
pentaxian |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Blazer0ne
Joined: 12 Sep 2018
Posts: 836
Expire: 2024-12-07
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: What is this optical formula? |
|
|
Blazer0ne wrote:
| cbass wrote: |
4 element 4 groups
|
Leica Macro Elmar 90mm f4? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10528
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
visualopsins wrote:
Guessing Ernostar. I wonder if concave rear element disqualifies?
Seen similar configurations in 105mm focal length, with convex rear element, however.
_________________
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014
Posts: 1196
Location: Brazil
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Gerald wrote:
The Konica Hexanon AR 135mm F2.5 has a similar optical diagram:
From: https://tinglilin.com/konicahexanon/telephoto/hexanon-ar-135mm-f2-5/
_________________
If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019
Posts: 441
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
cbass wrote:
It does sort of look like an Ernostar. The third element seems to have a unique shape in a Ernostar lens diagram that this lens does not have. The third element also seems to have a gap between the first and second element while these are closer. Does that still make it an Ernostar? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 2491
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
D1N0 wrote:
It's the Nikon E-series 100mm 1:2.8
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/emfgfg20/eserieslenses/htmls/100135mm.htm
screenshot:
_________________
pentaxian |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I does look like it was based on the Ernostar.
_________________
I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Blazer0ne
Joined: 12 Sep 2018
Posts: 836
Expire: 2024-12-07
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Blazer0ne wrote:
...
Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 1658
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
papasito wrote:
From 85 to 135 mm lens F/2,8 to 4 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019
Posts: 441
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
cbass wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. I knew it was Nikon 100 f/2.8 E series. I was looking for a known optical formula description like ernostar. It looks to be a modified ernostar of some sort based on the feedback. It actually does look pretty similar to the Leica Elmar 90mm f/4. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 2491
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
D1N0 wrote:
Let's see
Ernostar:
Nikon-E 105/2.8
Tamron 135/2.5
All variations on the same theme
Komine 135mm 2.8 (v1)
_________________
pentaxian |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10528
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
visualopsins wrote:
| D1N0 wrote: |
Let's see
Ernostar:
... |
Aperture place on that diagram -- if correct, makes the Nikkor not an Ernostar I think...
_________________
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 2491
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
D1N0 wrote:
None of them have the slightly concave front surface of the third element either. It is either convex or seemingly flat.
_________________
pentaxian |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Regardless, it is clearly based on the Ernostar design. I expect the designers took a look at the Ernostar type and updated using modern computer aided methods and materials.
_________________
I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 2491
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
D1N0 wrote:
From another topic
| no-X wrote: |
aoleg: The ZM has one more element (rear) 
Bruce: If you like these lenses, why to care, if they use Sonnar or Ernostar optical formula? Btw. both of them were developed by the same man, Ludwid Bertele. Ernostar is earlier. Sonnar is very similar, but its purpose was increase of contrast by reducing the number of air/glass surfaces.
So, simply: basic Ernostar is triplet lens with one more element in the front group.
Basic Sonnar is Ernostar, whose 2nd element and the central (negative) element were cemented together (directly, or by adding one more element between them, as shown on the picture):
Many fast Sonnars and Ernostars have a bit more complex rear group (cemented doublet or triplet)
The simpliest Sonnar design is used by CZJ 135mm Sonnars and soviet 135mm Jupiters.
More: http://img12.abload.de/img/lens_scheme_tri_v5ev1i.png (scroll down) |
Maybe by the time the Nikon-E came out the cemented group of the Sonnar was no longer necessary due to improved coatings. Also four single elements is cheaper to produce and more light weight. There was another Ernostar adaption which added an extra rear element like you can see in the Pentax-m 100mm 1:2.8
_________________
pentaxian |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
stevemark wrote:
For those being able to read German: I had published a series of articles on the general development of lenses back in 2009, in the "Sony Fotospiegel". The corresponding - slightly modified - PDFs can be downloaded from my website:
http://www.artaphot.ch/zeiss
http://artaphot.ch/images/Technik/Zeiss/Tessar/FS141_History_ZeissTessar_150dpi.pdf
http://artaphot.ch/images/Technik/Zeiss/Sonnar/FS142_History_ZeissSonnar_150dpi.pdf
http://artaphot.ch/images/Technik/Zeiss/Planar-Biotar/FS143_History_ZeissPlanarBiotar_150dpi.pdf
http://artaphot.ch/images/Technik/Zeiss/Biogon/FS144_History_ZeissBiogon_150dpi.pdf
Even if you don't understand German, the lens diagrams therein should be uselful.
S
_________________
www.artaphot.ch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019
Posts: 441
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
cbass wrote:
Stevemark,
So is it a ernostar or not? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10528
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
visualopsins wrote:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.artaphot.ch%2Fzeiss
_________________
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
stevemark wrote:
Sadly the machine translation doesn't work for the articles themselves. I would agree to make a raw tranlsation, if someone of the native English speakers here would agree to do the necessary corrections, and then make a proper PDF with all the necessary images. Just PM me if you're interested to help.
S
_________________
www.artaphot.ch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019
Posts: 441
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
cbass wrote:
You can copy the text from the pdf and paste into google translate. You can also take the pdf and run it through a converter to turn it into html if you want to share it on your website with the ability to translate.
Although the pdf's are informative that still doesn't answer the question about which optical formula it is. The best guess so far is ernostar. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10528
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
visualopsins wrote:
I agree -- that one drawing of Ernostar has aperture in the wrong position.
_________________
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
| cbass wrote: |
| answer the question about which optical formula it is. The best guess so far is ernostar. |
No guess involved and the answer has already been given - it's a modified Ernostar.
_________________
I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
stevemark wrote:
| cbass wrote: |
Although the pdf's are informative that still doesn't answer the question about which optical formula it is. The best guess so far is ernostar. |
Sure it's an Ernostar - even though the first "Ernostar" wasn't an Ernostar: In fact the Gundlach Ultrastigmat was the first lens to have the structure we today call "Ernostar".
S
_________________
www.artaphot.ch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10528
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
visualopsins wrote:
| stevemark wrote: |
| cbass wrote: |
Although the pdf's are informative that still doesn't answer the question about which optical formula it is. The best guess so far is ernostar. |
Sure it's an Ernostar - even though the first "Ernostar" wasn't an Ernostar: In fact the Gundlach Ultrastigmat was the first lens to have the structure we today call "Ernostar".
S |
Gundlach Ultrastigmat was designed in 1916
Ernostar was designed in 1923
ref:
https://oldlens.com/ultrastigmat%2050mmf075.html\
and
https://oldlens.com/lenshistory.html
_________________
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
Search
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
