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Close focusing tele recommendations?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:33 am    Post subject: Close focusing tele recommendations? Reply with quote
It's almost my birthday so I'm looking for a nice close focusing tele?

Between 100 and 150mm, sharp wide open, 1:2 possibility, max 100€.
I'm familiar with the close focusing Vivitar 135mm f/2.8, but I'm curious about other options as well.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hexanon 3.2/135, the best 135 for close up work I have come accross, stunning lens.

However, that said, I think getting either a long helicoid or some bellows and using enlarger and similar lenses is the way to go, some of the enlarger/repro lenses I use are fantastic in various regards, there's the Ross Resolux 9cm with it's distinctive painterly bokeh, the TT&H Ental 5 inch that is sharp as hell but with beautiful rendering, the Kodak Enlarging Ektar 4 inch that is a dialyte type and sharper than a very sharp thing with distinctive bokeh, the Rodenstock APO-Rodagon D 4/75 that is just amazing, 3D pop like a Zeiss T*, very high contrast and resolution, there are several more in my collection I dearly love too.

Sigma and Tamron 90mm macros are both excellent too, can be found cheap. I like the Sigma on my a850. Canon FD 4/100 is good too, but the Nikkor 4/105 is better.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Hexanon 3.2/135, the best 135 for close up work I have come accross, stunning lens.

However, that said, I think getting either a long helicoid or some bellows and using enlarger and similar lenses is the way to go, some of the enlarger/repro lenses I use are fantastic in various regards, there's the Ross Resolux 9cm with it's distinctive painterly bokeh, the TT&H Ental 5 inch that is sharp as hell but with beautiful rendering, the Kodak Enlarging Ektar 4 inch that is a dialyte type and sharper than a very sharp thing with distinctive bokeh, the Rodenstock APO-Rodagon D 4/75 that is just amazing, 3D pop like a Zeiss T*, very high contrast and resolution, there are several more in my collection I dearly love too.

Sigma and Tamron 90mm macros are both excellent too, can be found cheap. I like the Sigma on my a850. Canon FD 4/100 is good too, but the Nikkor 4/105 is better.


After your recommendations on the Hexanon, and reading some reviews on the web, I decided to buy one from Ebay. The price was good, so I didn't want to wait. Thank you.


PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well done, you won't be disappointed with it, I'm sure. Enjoy!


PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5 has a MFD of 1 meter


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, you know that 1m MFD in a 135mm lens is quite far from 1:2 macro ability, don't you?

I would rather recommend the Contax-Zeiss 80-200mm f4. That is not only a versatile lens with Zeiss rendering and really smooth bokeh, but it also has 1m MFD - at 200mm that means you can get quite close to a subject!


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Extension tubes or bellows may be an option.

According to the reference sheet that came with an old set of tubes, 1:2 magnification (x0.5) can be achieved with a 135mm lens with 70mm of extension, the subject being 600mm from the image plane.

The required increase in exposure (about a stop) will be catered for by the in-camera metering system in a modern camera.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
hasenbein wrote:
Well, you know that 1m MFD in a 135mm lens is quite far from 1:2 macro ability, don't you?

I would rather recommend the Contax-Zeiss 80-200mm f4. That is not only a versatile lens with Zeiss rendering and really smooth bokeh, but it also has 1m MFD - at 200mm that means you can get quite close to a subject!


For 1:2 you really want a dedicated macro instead of a close focussing ability. The Vivitar close focussing is a 1:2 macro. There are many zooms in the range that focus very close but usually only the center is sharp. For under $100 you could look at something like a s-m-c Takumar 100mm F4 or Pentax-M 100mm F4 (Tessar derivates). Those are on the short side, but macro ability lenses tend to get more expensive the longer they are. For a zoom I would recommend a more compact one in the 70-150mm range like The Tamron Adaptall-2 70-150mm F3.5 (f4 really) model 20A. It is light and compact and has 1:3 magnification at 150mm and much cheaper than $100


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you can deal with something longer and really want a proper macro lens at 1:2, then the Sigma 180mm F2.8 or 5.6 APO Macro is quite cheap in certain mounts like Canon and Nikon where many were produced. I'm not sure about the 5.6 version but the 2.8 is available in traditional manual focus and also as autofocus with simplified mechanical focus (shorter focus throw and slightly less precise).
They are usually $100-200, which is a bargain for a proper macro lens with floating groups and internal focus, and the APO correction is very good. There is also the newer Sigma 150mm F2.8 that goes to 1:1 but more or less in the $200-300 range.

I guess I should mention the Sigma 105mm F2.8 but it's far less complex than the other lenses - I believe it's external, front-cell close-focusing - but it does do 1:1. So, maybe you are best to look for one of the Tokina\Tamron 90mm F2.5 and chuck a quality 1.5 or 1.4x teleconverter on it to bring it up to the focal length you want. Like 1 small


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
The CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5 has a MFD of 1 meter

+1 and M42 macro ring if you want closer.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
For under $100 you could look at something like a s-m-c Takumar 100mm F4 or Pentax-M 100mm F4 (Tessar derivates).

These are in fact Heliar/Dynar derivates (5 element lenses). Great lenses with beautiful bokeh.

Cheers!
Abbazz


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Abbazz wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
For under $100 you could look at something like a s-m-c Takumar 100mm F4 or Pentax-M 100mm F4 (Tessar derivates).

These are in fact Heliar/Dynar derivates (5 element lenses). Great lenses with beautiful bokeh.

Cheers!
Abbazz


+1

Tamron SP 90 gets close too!


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Abbazz wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
For under $100 you could look at something like a s-m-c Takumar 100mm F4 or Pentax-M 100mm F4 (Tessar derivates).

These are in fact Heliar/Dynar derivates (5 element lenses). Great lenses with beautiful bokeh.


Most 1st generation 100mm macro lenses (usually 1:4 or 1:3.5) are [5/3] computations:

Canon FD/nFD 4/100mm Macro
Konica Hexanon 4/105mm
Minolta MC/MD 3.5/100mm Macro
Minolta MD 4/100mm Macro
Nikkor Ai/AiS 4/105mm Micro
Pentax Takumar 4/100mm Macro
Yashica ML 3.5/100mm Macro
(and probably many others).

EDIT: The two Minoltas mentioned are [5/4] Xenotar lenses, NOT [5/3] Heliar type lenses!! Thx to Alsatian2017 for reminding me of that!

From the lenses mentioned above the Minolta MD 4/100mm is the best i know, BUT i don't know the Nikkor and the Yashica!!
While the lens section of the Minolta 3.5/100mm and 4/100mm Macro look nearly identical, their performance is quite different: The MD 4/100mm at infinity is extremely sharp wide open, even in the corner, and it has least CAs from all Minolta MC/MD 100mm lenses.

During the early 1980s quite a few lenses of the 2.8/100mm Macro class were made as well, starting with the Tamron 2.5/90mm Macro. The more sophisticated lenses have floating elements; their construction usually is based on a gauss-type front part (moveable) and a stationary teleconverter at the back (two or three elements). The fast double gauss in front may be something like a 2/70mm lens. Since it's a 70mm lens, for focusing it doesn't need as much movement as a 100mm lens which is convenient both for the engineer and the end-user!

Some of these lenses are excellent as well, e. g. the Tamrom 2.5/90mm, the Nikkor AiS 2.8/105mm Micro (beware of stuck focus!!), the Leica R 2.8/100mm Macro and the Zeiss CY 2.8/100mm Macro.

Of course the two latter lenses are a bit outside of your budget, but most others should be available for USD 50.-- ... 150.--

Stephan

PS don't forget the Minolta AF 2.8/100mm - excellent lens, better than the Nikkor AF 2.8/105mm Micro (first variant) and available for USD 100.-- as well. The lens has a double floating system, nearly no CAs, and its early versions are full-metal.

Last edited by stevemark on Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:36 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="stevemark"]
Abbazz wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
For under $100 you could look at something like a s-m-c Takumar 100mm F4 or Pentax-M 100mm F4 (Tessar derivates).

These are in fact Heliar/Dynar derivates (5 element lenses). Great lenses with beautiful bokeh.


Most 1st generation 100mm macro lenses (usually 1:4 or 1:3.5) are [5/3] computations:

Canon FD/nFD 4/100mm Macro
Konica Hexanon 4/105mm
Minolta MC/MD 3.5/100mm Macro
Minolta MD 4/100mm Macro
Nikkor Ai/AiS 4/105mm Micro
Pentax Takumar 4/100mm Macro
Yashica ML 3.5/100mm Macro
(and probably many others).


I was going to recommend the Minolta Rokkor Macro 100 / 3.5, it's a big heavy lump of glass and metal, and it does need the dedicated teleconverter to get the 1:1 macro out of it, but it is a great lens.

Looking down my spreadsheet where I have a column for close focus distance ( I've gone full nerd Rolling Eyes ) the best lens I have in that range is my old Schacht Travegar 100 / 3.3 that focus' down to 3 feet. It's a nice old lens from the early 1960's, but definitely a lens of it's time.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Plus 1 for the bellows and enlarger concept. For around 150 dollars I got the fantastic Minolta Auto Bellows III (which allow tilt and shift movements) and a 150mm Schneider componon. Other bellows are, of course MUCH less expensive. You could probably outfit a m42 bellows and 135mm componon for 50 dollars if you were willing to wait on e-bay auctions. Its not truly a tele system though. I have to also say I do also really like my Konica 135mm 3.2. So well done on that front.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If a 90 mm is long enough, hard to beat the Tamron SP 1:2.5 macro 52B, also in your budget with a bit of luck.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:


Most 1st generation 100mm macro lenses (usually 1:4 or 1:3.5) are [5/3] computations:

Canon FD/nFD 4/100mm Macro
Konica Hexanon 4/105mm
Minolta MC/MD 3.5/100mm Macro
Minolta MD 4/100mm Macro
Nikkor Ai/AiS 4/105mm Micro
Pentax Takumar 4/100mm Macro
Yashica ML 3.5/100mm Macro
(and probably many others).



Hi Steve,

just to keep it exact (the Swiss are not the only ones obsessed by precision Wink ), the Minoltas have 5 elements in 4 groups (5/4) which is what sets them apart from the other lenses. BTW, I've found that information on artaphot.ch and in the official documents of that time, so I believe it is true. Laugh 1

Among those lenses, I've got the Canon nFD, Minolta MD f/4 and the SMC Takumar Macro which are quite similar in IQ once you stop them down to f/8. Nevertheless, the MD is the best if you favour perfect sharpness in the extreme corners wide open close up and at infinity. Thanks to its slightly different optical formula it slightly betters the others which are truly excellent lenses. The older, f/3.5, model is slightly inferior to the others, I've had it and sold it quickly, also due to its excessive weight.

Cheers Volker


PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alsatian2017 wrote:

Hi Steve,

just to keep it exact (the Swiss are not the only ones obsessed by precision Wink ), the Minoltas have 5 elements in 4 groups (5/4) which is what sets them apart from the other lenses. BTW, I've found that information on artaphot.ch and in the official documents of that time, so I believe it is true. Laugh 1


OUCH ... i'm getting old ... Wink


Alsatian2017 wrote:

Among those lenses, I've got the Canon nFD, Minolta MD f/4 and the SMC Takumar Macro which are quite similar in IQ once you stop them down to f/8. Nevertheless, the MD is the best if you favour perfect sharpness in the extreme corners wide open close up and at infinity. Thanks to its slightly different optical formula it slightly betters the others which are truly excellent lenses. The older, f/3.5, model is slightly inferior to the others, I've had it and sold it quickly, also due to its excessive weight.
Cheers Volker


That's quite exactly my observation as well. Though I must add that I've compared these lenses in the the macro range: I don't think I could do that in a reliable manner.

S


PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
double posting; deleted!


PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a few macro lenses in the 100-135mm range. My opinion, based on admittedly inexact tests is that they are all so good that it is very difficult choosing a winner. And there are lots more that I've not tried that I've heard are also great 100mm-ish macros.

The ones I have:

Tamron 90mm f/2.5
Canon nFD 100mm f/4
Asahi Takumar M42 100mm f/4
Vivitar CF 135mm f/2.8

I also own a couple of 55mm f/3.5 Micro-Nikkors and a 55mm f/2.8 AIs Micro Nikkor. These lenses are amazingly sharp optics. And I own a 200mm f/4 Micro-Nikkor. It's ok, sharpness wise. Not as sharp as any of the above lenses. There's also a zoom I own that's worth mentioning -- the Tamron SP 60-300mm f/3.8-5.4. It gets down to 1:155, if I'm not mistaken. Center sharpness is amazing, but corner sharpness is rather soft until it's been stopped down quite a bit.

Also, it bears mentioning that if you're after high magnification shots, there are two other approaches. You can reverse-mount a wide angle lens. Its magnification is a rather complex subject. It's easier just to measure things with a ruler --take a pic of the ruler and do the math. You can also stack lenses. Reverse mount a shorter lens to a longer one that will attach to the camera body. The magnification is the longer lens's focal length divided by the shorter lens's focal length.

I have two setups like this that I've been using. I have my Tamron 90mm attached to one of my 55mm f/3.5 Micros, and a Canon nFD 200mm f/4 attached to another of the 55mm f/3.5 Micros. These two setups provide me with 1.64x and 3.64x respectively.

Last edited by cooltouch on Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Also the Macro-Topcor 135mm f/4. Short-mount bellows lens.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Unfortunately I discovered fungus inside the Hexanon that I received from Ebay, so I will have to look for another lens. I well definitely look at some other recommendations as well. Thank you all!


PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Found a mc telezenitar 135/2.8 for a very good price, that according to the seller is in as-new condition. Not exactly closer focus, but not really an issue since I have rings. Very curious about this lens' performance.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
caspert79 wrote:
Unfortunately I discovered fungus inside the Hexanon that I received from Ebay, so I will have to look for another lens. I well definitely look at some other recommendations as well. Thank you all!


I have two Hexanon AR 135mm f3.2 lenses in perfect condition. Send me a pm if you are interested in one of them.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DigiChromeEd wrote:
caspert79 wrote:
Unfortunately I discovered fungus inside the Hexanon that I received from Ebay, so I will have to look for another lens. I well definitely look at some other recommendations as well. Thank you all!


I have two Hexanon AR 135mm f3.2 lenses in perfect condition. Send me a pm if you are interested in one of them.


I'm afraid I did a little too much spending lately to buy an extra lens. Unless you want to swap it for another lens, then please PM me.
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