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29 Versions of the 55mm Asahi Takumar M42 Screw Mount Lenses
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lens clock has arrived! Preliminary measurements show there ARE two optical design, different for lenses produced before 1971 and those 1971 and later. Front elements and rear elements have different curvature, while the different diameter second elements have nearly the same curvature. More later after Ifigure out how to read the lens clock -- scale goes -20 to +20 something, there a "153", iirc a refraction of glass parameter to calibrate the measurement numbers for the diopter formula...


PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to dig mine out and see what I have. This is good information, visualopsins Like 1 .


PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revised table with corrected lens desiigns, more descriptions to discern between variations, plus one more variation from the Book I'd missed.

30 Versions of the 55mm Asahi Takumar M42 Screw Mount Lenses

Beg, End, Lens, f/#, elements/groups, notes

5/1957, 5/1959, Takumar, 2.2, 5/5, distance in meters
5/1957, 5/1959, Takumar, 2.2, 5/5, distance in feet
5/1957, 5/1959, Takumar, 2.2, 5/5, distance in meters and feet

4/1958, 5/1959, Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(1)

5/1958, 5/1959, Auto-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(1) , Zebra
5/1958, 5/1959, Auto-Takumar, 1.9, 6/5(1) , Zebra, f/1.8 lens marked 1.9 for US sale with Sears Tower 29 brand cameras made by Asahi Pentax

1959, 1961, Auto-Takumar, 2, 6/5(1), white distance engravings, "1:2 f = 55mm" on name ring
1961, 1962, Auto-Takumar, 2, 6/5(1), yellow distance engravings, "1:2 / 55mm" on name ring

1960, 1962, Auto-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(1) , ccw rotating aperture ring, reverse direction A/M switch, 1/2 aperture stop between f/11 and f/16, serial # below 462500
*1960, 1962, Auto-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(1) , ccw rotating aperture ring, reverse direction A/M switch, 1/2 aperture stop between f/11 and f/16, serial # above 462500

1961, 1962, Auto-Takumar, 2.2, 6/5(1), white distance engravings, chrome aperture ring and dof scale
1962, 1963, Auto-Takumar, 2.2, 6/5(1), yellow distance engravings, black aperture ring

1962, 1963, Super-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(1), model I, 1/2 aperture stop between f/11 and f/16, fine knurls on diaphragm ring
1963, 1964, Super-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(1), model I, no 1/2 aperture stop between f/11 and f/16, fine knurls on diaphragm ring
1964, 1965, Super-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(1), model I, no 1/2 aperture stop between f/11 and f/16, fine knurls on diaphragm ring, 34520 on A/M switch

1962, 1963, Super-Takumar, 2, 6/5(1), Model I, ccw rotating aperture ring with unmarked detent past 2, reverse direction A/M switch, fine knurls on diaphragm ring
1963, 1965, Super-Takumar, 2, 6/5(1), Model I, cw rotating aperture ring doesn't move past 2, cw A/M, fine knurls on diaphragm ring

1965, 1966, Super-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(1), model II, without aperture coupling, A/M switch labels, blue coatings, coarse knurls on diaphragm ring
1966, 1971, Super-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(1), model II, without aperture coupling, Auto/Man switch labels, coarse knurls on diaphragm ring, 37100 on Auto/Man switch, purple coatings
1971, 1971, Super-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(2), model II, without aperture coupling, Auto/Man switch labels, coarse knurls on diaphragm ring, 37101 on Auto/Man switch
1971, 1971, Super-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(2), model II, with aperture coupling, Auto/Man switch labels, coarse knurls on diaphragm ring, 37101 on Auto/Man switch

1965, 1966, Super-Takumar, 2, 6/5(1), Model II, without aperture coupling, A/M switch labels, coarse knurls on diaphragm ring
1966, 1971, Super-Takumar, 2, 6/5(1), Model II, without aperture coupling, Auto/Man switch labels, coarse knurls on diaphragm ring, 37102 on Auto/Man switch
*1971, 1972, Super-Takumar, 2, 6/5(2), Model II, without aperture coupling, Auto/Man switch labels, coarse knurls on diaphragm ring, 37103 on Auto/Man switch
*1972, 1974, Super-Takumar, 2, 6/5(2), Model II, with aperture coupling, Auto/Man switch labels, coarse knurls on diaphragm ring, 37107 on Auto/Man switch

*1971, 1971, Super-Multi-Coated Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(2), without aperture coupling, 37101 on Auto/Man switch is same on Super 55/1.8 Model II variation 3
*1971, 1972, Super-Multi-Coated Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(2), with aperture coupling, 37104 on Auto/Man switch
1972, 1972, Super-Multi-Coated Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(2), with aperture coupling, 37106 on Auto/Man switch

1972, 1975, SMC Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(2), 37108 on Auto/Man switch

*1974, 1977 SMC Takumar, 2, 6/5(2), 37109 on Auto/Man switch

notes:

dates for individual lenses in a group are my guesses based on date range in reference for the entire group and other clues.
6/5(1) -- first 6/5 design
6/5(2) -- second 6/5 design
* -- physical inspection


Last edited by visualopsins on Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:22 pm; edited 5 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This gives a totally different image. Looks like the second design was introduced in 1971, so everything before is design 1. I wonder weather the 1971 Super-Takumars are really Super-Multi-Coated. I have a Super-Takumar 105mm 2.8 That has the distinct green coating of S-M-C. Like Pentax improved coatings but forgot to do marketing at first.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
This gives a totally different image. Looks like the second design was introduced in 1971, so everything before is design 1. I wonder weather the 1971 Super-Takumars are really Super-Multi-Coated. I have a Super-Takumar 105mm 2.8 That has the distinct green coating of S-M-C. Like Pentax improved coatings but forgot to do marketing at first.


Gerjan says the following lens, except for NO Super-Multi-Coating was produced during transition period from Super- to Super-Multi-Coated.

1971, 1971, Super-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(2), model II, with aperture coupling, Auto/Man switch labels, coarse knurls on diaphragm ring, 37101 on A/M switch

Here is the same 37101 lens has Super-Multi-Coated name ring and Super-Multi-Coating.

*1971, 1971, Super-Multi-Coated Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(2), without aperture coupling, 37101 on A/M switch is same on Super 55/1.8 Model II variation 3

EDIT: Gerjan says latest samples of Super-Takumar 105/2.8 have Super-Multi-Coating but no aperture coupling.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was "Gerjan" one of the engineers or mathematicians that worked for Asahi? I am curious why this name is credited towards corporate knowledge of the Takumar lens family.

visualopsins wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
This gives a totally different image. Looks like the second design was introduced in 1971, so everything before is design 1. I wonder weather the 1971 Super-Takumars are really Super-Multi-Coated. I have a Super-Takumar 105mm 2.8 That has the distinct green coating of S-M-C. Like Pentax improved coatings but forgot to do marketing at first.


Gerjan says the following lens, except for NO Super-Multi-Coating was produced during transition period from Super- to Super-Multi-Coated.

1971, 1971, Super-Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(2), model II, with aperture coupling, Auto/Man switch labels, coarse knurls on diaphragm ring, 37101 on A/M switch

Here is the same 37101 lens has Super-Multi-Coated name ring and Super-Multi-Coating.

*1971, 1971, Super-Multi-Coated Takumar, 1.8, 6/5(2), without aperture coupling, 37101 on A/M switch is same on Super 55/1.8 Model II variation 3

EDIT: Gerjan says latest samples of Super-Takumar 105/2.8 have Super-Multi-Coating but no aperture coupling.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cameras too.

http://forum.mflenses.com/new-book-on-m42-pentax-and-takumar-in-the-making-t81736.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/29-welcomes-introductions/407494-working-new-ultimate-asahi-pentax-guide.html


PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lens Clock numbers are Diopters

Left to Right, 6/5(1), 6/5(2)
Top to Bottom, F1, F2, Diameter

Front element:
+12.0, +9.5
-3.0, -2.0
1.48", 1.44"


2nd element:
+24.0, +24.0
-11.5, -11.5
1.34", 1.28"


PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess this must be the 30st version of the 55/2. Just arrived by post, my auto-Takumar 55mm f/2 with yellow AND white distance engraving.





PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks blue to me. Light blue. Okay, bluish white. Compare next to something white like photo paper...


PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
Looks blue to me. Light blue. Okay, bluish white. Compare next to something white like photo paper...


Yeah its actually light grey with a slightly blueish tint to it.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#1


powder blue
baby blue


PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

caspert79 wrote:
I guess this must be the 30st version of the 55/2. Just arrived by post, my auto-Takumar 55mm f/2 with yellow AND white distance engraving.

(pics)


The list is now 34 lenses long... Smile Some I missed from Gerjan's book; some I have are not listed in Gerjan's book.

Also began a collection of 135/3.5. There are multiple variations also. Already I have versions of Auto-Takumar and Super-Takumar model I not listed in the book.

Also in the book are some manufacture dates listed outside the date range the lens was produced -- I'm guessing typos. Accounting all the variations can get confusing very fast! And depends on samples available.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick update on this project.

The list is now 32 different variations.

There is yet another, the third, 6/5 optical design, found in early 1959 Auto-Takumar 1:2 f=55mm. The curvature of the front element is 15 diopeters, while later two 6/5 designs are 12 and 9.5 diopters. I'm waiting for 1962 Auto-Takumar 1:2.2/55, which may be a fourth 6/5 optics design.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

early 1959 "Auto-Takumar 1:2 f=55mm"


!


meet Heymore Mao


PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I 'accidentally' won a SMC Pentax 55mm 1.8 in an auction. That is really the last one on the list. Just not called Takumar any more because it has a K-mount. It was produced from 75 to 77. It was succeeded by a new design in the Pentax-m 50mm 1.7, which is still in use in the plastic fantastic SMC Pentax DA 50mm 1.8.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
early 1959 "Auto-Takumar 1:2 f=55mm"


!


meet Heymore Mao


I wonder if this lens is optically really the same as the Super-Takumar 55/2. The Auto-Takumar is made by Tomioka I believe, so you would expect some differences?


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

caspert79 wrote:





I wonder if this lens is optically really the same as the Super-Takumar 55/2. The Auto-Takumar is made by Tomioka I believe, so you would expect some differences?


It is not. It's just that the Tomioka made Yashinon 50mm F2 that looks like the twin of the auto-takumar 55/2. They are different lenses. Pentax has always made it's own lenses until the late eighties early when they started to use Tamron for some zooms and they had a Cosina Macro (100/3.5)


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
caspert79 wrote:





I wonder if this lens is optically really the same as the Super-Takumar 55/2. The Auto-Takumar is made by Tomioka I believe, so you would expect some differences?


It is not. It's just that the Tomioka made Yashinon 50mm F2 that looks like the twin of the auto-takumar 55/2. They are different lenses. Pentax has always made it's own lenses until the late eighties early when they started to use Tamron for some zooms and they had a Cosina Macro (100/3.5)


Not the same optically -- same 6/5 formula, different design parameters, given the different front element curvatures.

Asahi Optical Company made the Auto-Takumar. Perhaps they shared the design with Tomioka...edit: the Yashinon has an entirely different aperture coupling mechanism...


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
I 'accidentally' won a SMC Pentax 55mm 1.8 in an auction. That is really the last one on the list. Just not called Takumar any more because it has a K-mount. It was produced from 75 to 77. It was succeeded by a new design in the Pentax-m 50mm 1.7, which is still in use in the plastic fantastic SMC Pentax DA 50mm 1.8.


Not the last on a list of M42 lenses. Smile

The optical formula is still 6/5 but design parameters may be different. Any way you can clock the curvature of the front element?


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
I 'accidentally' won a SMC Pentax 55mm 1.8 in an auction. That is really the last one on the list. Just not called Takumar any more because it has a K-mount. It was produced from 75 to 77. It was succeeded by a new design in the Pentax-m 50mm 1.7, which is still in use in the plastic fantastic SMC Pentax DA 50mm 1.8.


Not the last on a list of M42 lenses. Smile

The optical formula is still 6/5 but design parameters may be different. Any way you can clock the curvature of the front element?


It has to arrive first Wink I don't have a measure thingy. The SMC K-mount series were a bit wider (52mm filter thread instead of 49mm for most primes (from 24 to 150mm)) but that could just be the lens body.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comparing the Auto-Takumar 1:2 f=55 and Auto-Takumar 1:2/55, with the Auto-Takumar 1:2.2/55

Both lenses have identical front and rear element curvatures.

Both lenses are the same length 33mm.

Both weigh 175 g

However, unlike the SuperTakumar 1:2/55 which, except for a max-aperture-limiting ring inside, is identical to the Super-Takumar 1:1.8/55, Isee no such ring in the Auto-Takumar 1:2.2/55.

Gerjan shows differing lens diagrams, and, gives different weights and lengths, however in another place says the lenses are identical, with f/2.2 crippled he doesn't say how.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just discovered there is a third variation of the 2.2 -- a second chrome 2.2 with a smaller ".2" (supposedly to save room) on dof scale -- mine has both 2s same size.

#1


#2


PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
Comparing the Auto-Takumar 1:2 f=55 and Auto-Takumar 1:2/55, with the Auto-Takumar 1:2.2/55

Both lenses have identical front and rear element curvatures.

Both lenses are the same length 33mm.

Both weigh 175 g

However, unlike the SuperTakumar 1:2/55 which, except for a max-aperture-limiting ring inside, is identical to the Super-Takumar 1:1.8/55, Isee no such ring in the Auto-Takumar 1:2.2/55.

Gerjan shows differing lens diagrams, and, gives different weights and lengths, however in another place says the lenses are identical, with f/2.2 crippled he doesn't say how.


That's interesting. I wonder if it just has thicker front(beauty) and rear(fixing) rings only, rather than a fixed stop at the diaphragm.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciolist wrote:
visualopsins wrote:
Comparing the Auto-Takumar 1:2 f=55 and Auto-Takumar 1:2/55, with the Auto-Takumar 1:2.2/55

Both lenses have identical front and rear element curvatures.

Both lenses are the same length 33mm.

Both weigh 175 g

However, unlike the SuperTakumar 1:2/55 which, except for a max-aperture-limiting ring inside, is identical to the Super-Takumar 1:1.8/55, Isee no such ring in the Auto-Takumar 1:2.2/55.

Gerjan shows differing lens diagrams, and, gives different weights and lengths, however in another place says the lenses are identical, with f/2.2 crippled he doesn't say how.


That's interesting. I wonder if it just has thicker front(beauty) and rear(fixing) rings only, rather than a fixed stop at the diaphragm.


They are identical except the lettering...unless you are seeing something I'm not in the photos above.

Both 2s and the chrome 2.2 have identical physical clear aperture measurements, taken from the front, of 25mm. And all diaphragms close down to the same size...
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