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Old story which Helios 58 mm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
The 44-2 Black matte was also made by KMZ. The copies i've had experience with where booth focussing smoothly and without any wobble.


I agree with you.
What Olmajti writes is a bunch of bollocks. I own about 60 Helios lenses. And I have owned a multitude of that number.
I have Helios lenses of all ages that 'wobble'...or not. Well in fact it's not wobbling it's sometimes just a little hesitation between turning the focus and returning it.
It's all about copy-variation. And this fuels all the colored opinions about these lenses.
As in: "I have a few of these lenses and the best/sharpest one I have is the... (fill in whatever Helios-44 model you want) hence this is the best model...
No, this only means that the best "Helios-44-model" lens you own just happens to be one of that particular model, nothing more, nothing less.

I have my own opinons about these lenses but I have my reasons not to ventilate them here (or somewhere else for that matter).


PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucse wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
The 44-2 Black matte was also made by KMZ. The copies i've had experience with where booth focussing smoothly and without any wobble.


I agree with you.
What Olmajti writes is a bunch of bollocks. I own about 60 Helios lenses. And I have owned a multitude of that number.
I have Helios lenses of all ages that 'wobble'...or not. Well in fact it's not wobbling it's sometimes just a little hesitation between turning the focus and returning it.
It's all about copy-variation. And this fuels all the colored opinions about these lenses.
As in: "I have a few of these lenses and the best/sharpest one I have is the... (fill in whatever Helios-44 model you want) hence this is the best model...
No, this only means that the best "Helios-44-model" lens you own just happens to be one of that particular model, nothing more, nothing less.

I have my own opinons about these lenses but I have my reasons not to ventilate them here (or somewhere else for that matter).


You mean you have an opinion different from Olmajti, correct? From these two opinions can it be said there are probably almost as many opinions as lenses!


PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
Lucse wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
The 44-2 Black matte was also made by KMZ. The copies i've had experience with where booth focussing smoothly and without any wobble.


I agree with you.
What Olmajti writes is a bunch of bollocks. I own about 60 Helios lenses. And I have owned a multitude of that number.
I have Helios lenses of all ages that 'wobble'...or not. Well in fact it's not wobbling it's sometimes just a little hesitation between turning the focus and returning it.
It's all about copy-variation. And this fuels all the colored opinions about these lenses.
As in: "I have a few of these lenses and the best/sharpest one I have is the... (fill in whatever Helios-44 model you want) hence this is the best model...
No, this only means that the best "Helios-44-model" lens you own just happens to be one of that particular model, nothing more, nothing less.

I have my own opinons about these lenses but I have my reasons not to ventilate them here (or somewhere else for that matter).


You mean you have an opinion different from Olmajti, correct? From these two opinions can it be said there are probably almost as many opinions as lenses!


Exactly, my opinion is as worthless as his. But at least I know it is.


Last edited by Lucse on Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kiddo wrote:
I don't have any of those lenses, but I guess, if you want to shorten the list, firstly just don't add any more. You should compare the one you have, as many times there are lots of differences between them (quality control, particular issues etc) and start to get rid of one ,every time you compare them. I've also got some normal 50's ,but it's imposible to get rid of them, is the focal that I mostly use, and I know they are all different (at least to my eyes). Sometimes it's not about the lens itself, but the feeling you have with a specific lens that you choose it for (I love Septon dkl, even though I wouldn't compare it with a topcor 1.4). Sometimes ,the circumstances make you reduce the lot, so you're the one that needs to choose, for me ,it's difficult to get rid of 50's (all the others FL aren't an issue for me, maybe the 24mm...)
I still need to add that I miss my c/y planar 1.4, overall, was the one I've never sell (unfortunately, too expensive to keep it).


I have used a lot of normal lenses from 1971. Time to time I sold all of them. Wait for better times and buy new old lenses again.

I like the Septon so much (if you can afford one try the Skopagon 40/2, Very, Very good lens)

Except Olympus, I tried all the known brands. Or almost all. From Alpa to Zeiss Contarex, Icarex, Leica R and M, Asahi Pentax, Canon, Nikon, etc.

But nos, I only have five 50 mm lenses and in the cheap side.

I know perfectly that they are not crons, s'lux, Zeiss Planars, Macro Switars, Canon nfd, SMC, Takumars nor Nikkors.

But I have only those lenses in the normal range.

That is why I did ask you.

Btw, I noted than my miranda 50/1,8 is sharper than my Rollei Planar 50/1,8 (as anyone said before here)


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are going to decide between the Konica 57 1.4 and the Helios I would recommend if you can, get a Helios and use them both for a little while and see which one you like.. They do have some similarities but many differences as well, the bokeh is pretty different for one. I had a Konica 57 1.4 and Konica 50 1.4 and sold them both while I kept the Helios.. I couldn’t tell you why though, It is all just preference and how the lens makes you feel.

Andrew


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

papasito wrote:
kiddo wrote:
I don't have any of those lenses, but I guess, if you want to shorten the list, firstly just don't add any more. You should compare the one you have, as many times there are lots of differences between them (quality control, particular issues etc) and start to get rid of one ,every time you compare them. I've also got some normal 50's ,but it's imposible to get rid of them, is the focal that I mostly use, and I know they are all different (at least to my eyes). Sometimes it's not about the lens itself, but the feeling you have with a specific lens that you choose it for (I love Septon dkl, even though I wouldn't compare it with a topcor 1.4). Sometimes ,the circumstances make you reduce the lot, so you're the one that needs to choose, for me ,it's difficult to get rid of 50's (all the others FL aren't an issue for me, maybe the 24mm...)
I still need to add that I miss my c/y planar 1.4, overall, was the one I've never sell (unfortunately, too expensive to keep it).


I have used a lot of normal lenses from 1971. Time to time I sold all of them. Wait for better times and buy new old lenses again.

I like the Septon so much (if you can afford one try the Skopagon 40/2, Very, Very good lens)

Except Olympus, I tried all the known brands. Or almost all. From Alpa to Zeiss Contarex, Icarex, Leica R and M, Asahi Pentax, Canon, Nikon, etc.

But nos, I only have five 50 mm lenses and in the cheap side.

I know perfectly that they are not crons, s'lux, Zeiss Planars, Macro Switars, Canon nfd, SMC, Takumars nor Nikkors.

But I have only those lenses in the normal range.

That is why I did ask you.

Btw, I noted than my miranda 50/1,8 is sharper than my Rollei Planar 50/1,8 (as anyone said before here)



What a coincidence.
I was having coffee with one of my photographer friends yesterday morning and I said exactly that.
The Miranda 1.8/50 has been sprinkled with pixie dust Smile
I have no idea why it is so good, but it is an outstanding lens
Tom


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucse wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
The 44-2 Black matte was also made by KMZ. The copies i've had experience with where booth focussing smoothly and without any wobble.


I agree with you.
What Olmajti writes is a bunch of bollocks. I own about 60 Helios lenses. And I have owned a multitude of that number.
I have Helios lenses of all ages that 'wobble'...or not. Well in fact it's not wobbling it's sometimes just a little hesitation between turning the focus and returning it.
It's all about copy-variation. And this fuels all the colored opinions about these lenses.
As in: "I have a few of these lenses and the best/sharpest one I have is the... (fill in whatever Helios-44 model you want) hence this is the best model...
No, this only means that the best "Helios-44-model" lens you own just happens to be one of that particular model, nothing more, nothing less.

I have my own opinons about these lenses but I have my reasons not to ventilate them here (or somewhere else for that matter).


Maybe there is a difference in production standards for lenses that were meant for export to the west (and party member/honcho's) and lenses for the regular Soviet citizen. Hence a different perception of lens quality.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldhand

I hace to buy another copy of the Miranda lens, because mine has one minimal Mark on the frontal element.

If I can get another copy. I will try to find the EC model, it's newer than mi auto Miranda versión.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Bittacy wrote:
If you are going to decide between the Konica 57 1.4 and the Helios I would recommend if you can, get a Helios and use them both for a little while and see which one you like.. They do have some similarities but many differences as well, the bokeh is pretty different for one. I had a Konica 57 1.4 and Konica 50 1.4 and sold them both while I kept the Helios.. I couldn’t tell you why though, It is all just preference and how the lens makes you feel.

Andrew


Andrew.
Thank you again.
IT's a good idea.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One normal would be a difficult choice. Speed? Minolta 58 1.2, definitely. Sharpness, probably voigtlander planar 50mm 1.8 (aka color ultron iirc). There are so very many good to great lenses in this arena. Investment Zeiss ultron or voigtlander septon. Maybe domiron. Consider primoplan? Konica 57mm 1.4? Olympus om 50mm 1.4? Canon, Nikon, mamiya, rikenon fuji scneider.. It's hard to name a manufacturer that doesn't have a good normal.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamaeolus wrote:
One normal would be a difficult choice. Speed? Minolta 58 1.2, definitely. Sharpness, probably voigtlander planar 50mm 1.8 (aka color ultron iirc). There are so very many good to great lenses in this arena. Investment Zeiss ultron or voigtlander septon. Maybe domiron. Consider primoplan? Konica 57mm 1.4? Olympus om 50mm 1.4? Canon, Nikon, mamiya, rikenon fuji scneider.. It's hard to name a manufacturer that doesn't have a good normal.


I had two Minoltas 58/1,2.
MC II and MCIII. Very good lenses. My copies has a strong CA with green cast in high ligh.
The skin at the sunlight lost the natural color and present a red line.
Great in B&W. The coated is not very good for color image at sunlight.

With Icarex Ultron, my Rollei Planar rendering is very similar. Rollei has better coating.

Except Olympus, I had tried almost all the brand's normales lenses.

But I repeat, now I only have the lenses mentioned before.

When I read Septon lens, should say, try the Skopagon 40/2. Beautiful lens, well made and excellent pic taker


PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is Helios 58mm f2 44m-4 @f2 used on full frame Pentax K-1.




PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course instead of a Helios you could get the original CZJ Biotar 58.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For cost and to get "that" effect I'd I'd probably go for the 44-2 black version. There's loads of them and you can get one quite cheap. The earlier M39 mount versions can be pricier and I've found theres some difficulty getting infinity on them, though that's easily remedied..


PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indigo82 wrote:
This is Helios 58mm f2 44m-4 @f2 used on full frame Pentax K-1.




Very good pic. Thx.
The Helios 44 lenses present great rendering


PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KEO wrote:
Of course instead of a Helios you could get the original CZJ Biotar 58.


Yes, it's true.

But the newer Helios present better coating. And it should be important.


PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gott23 wrote:
For cost and to get "that" effect I'd I'd probably go for the 44-2 black version. There's loads of them and you can get one quite cheap. The earlier M39 mount versions can be pricier and I've found theres some difficulty getting infinity on them, though that's easily remedied..


Thank you, Gott23.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So now I found a m6 so I can compare it to my 44-2 and 44m.... will this ever end?


PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
So now I found a m6 so I can compare it to my 44-2 and 44m.... will this ever end?


No. Never ending

Tell us what are your experiences with the M6 and 44M


PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

papasito wrote:
D1N0 wrote:
So now I found a m6 so I can compare it to my 44-2 and 44m.... will this ever end?


No. Never ending

Tell us what are your experiences with the M6 and 44M


I will. I have since discovered there is also a multi-coated mc version apart from the single coated regular version. Darn!


PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a comparison of consecutively the 44m-6 Valdai 1992 , 44M KMZ 1980 , 44-2 KMZ 1973 (matte black)

Helios 44 comparison 44M-6 by The lens profile, on Flickr

Helios 44 comparison 44M by The lens profile, on Flickr

Helios 44 comparison 44-2 by The lens profile, on Flickr

Camera shifted a bit between lenses so the focus plane may be slightly different all focussed on the black K.

Comparison shot with a different lens, the Auto-Takumar 55mm 1:2.2
Auto-Takumar 55mm 1:2.2 Vs Helios by The lens profile, on Flickr


PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To my eyes looking at the "K" letter

More contrast: M-6

More sharpness : 44-2

Poor. Average: M


PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will have to to a better test to see if the differences in field curvature are due to camera shift. I used a hood on the m6 and not on the other two because the front element is more recessed.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
I will have to to a better test to see if the differences in field curvature are due to camera shift. I used a hood on the m6 and not on the other two because the front element is more recessed.


Well. Finally I will sell my Konica Hexanon 57/1,4 and buy the Helios-44 M-6.

Think that the Helios and the RFollei planar HFT 50/1,8 will be good to me.

Sold the Vivitar VMC 50/1,4 too.

The Mamiya SX 135/2,8 is with me, nobody wants to purchase it.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Bittacy wrote:
For my two cents, I have owned the 44-m7 (be careful to get one that isn’t a fake) 44-m4 and an early silver KMZ 13 blade aperture model.


Fake? How can you tell? I am currently awaiting a 44m-7 8-blade which is a type I hadn't seen being sold until recently. I have a 44m-4 which is pretty sharp. Sharper wide open than my Minolta 50/1.7 @ f2. Not as sharp as this Auto Revuenon 55mm/2 that resembles Tomioka and is indeed razor sharp wide open.