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Rikenon 55 1.2 vs Minolta 58 1.2
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:44 am    Post subject: Rikenon 55 1.2 vs Minolta 58 1.2 Reply with quote

If you could keep only one, which onem and why?... I dont find much on these two head to head......


PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know much about the Rikenon. The Rokkor has been popular going back to early days of first manual focus forum at Fred Miranda's site, where a collection of folks thought it good enough to adapt to Canon EOS mount, even selling kits, way before there was any forum dedicated to mflenses, before inexpensive Camera adapters available from Asia.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This Rikenon is made by Tomioka IIRC.
And I do like Tomioka, I also love my Rokkor 58/1.2
I don't think you can go wrong with either of them.
Was looking on Flickr for some similar pics between the two...
Rikenon 55/1.2:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/liveactionhero/48575224002/

Rokkor 58/1.2:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/81451464@N03/16490085484/


PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Rikenon 55 1.2 vs Minolta 58 1.2 Reply with quote

Gatorengineer64 wrote:
If you could keep only one, which onem and why?... I dont find much on these two head to head......

If you do own both of these interesting lenses: Compare them, draw your conclusions, and publish them here. Others would be interested as well!

S


PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Rikenon is Tomioka? Then it's a toss up, really. Both are interesting and popular lenses, both capable of producing beautiful images. I like that Tomioka is lighter and smaller. On the other hand, I prefer bayonets to M42. In the end, if I were forced to sell one I'd sell the Rokkor first.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
This Rikenon is made by Tomioka IIRC.

Most of 55mm Rikenons (both 1.2 and 1.4) are made by Cosina. Some of them are indeed Tomiokas (and they are optically inferior to Cosinas), also a few are made by some another company (Sankor?).


PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ricoh XR Rikenon 55/1.2 in K-mount is a Cosina lens. It was also sold as MC Revuenon, MC Cosina, and VMC Vivitar Series 1. The Rikenon variant has been sold mainly as the set lens for Ricoh XR Solar camera. This camera was released in early 90's. Its optical performance is much more modern than Tomiokas from 70's.

Compared to Minolta 58/1.2, Ricoh should be more contrasty wide-open but inferior in the build quality.

Minolta will probably keep higher re-sell value.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input. I will get pictures up of both and try and post a couple of shots with each. Their are some real photographers in this forum and my test shots wont be as good, but hopefully will provide some idea...


PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

6 Test Pics 3 from each lens..... Sorry mine arent up to some of the great shots taken here usually. Huge difference in the rendering of the two lenses.






PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this a guess which lens made which image contest? Or you forgot to ID which is which.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would keep the first one, unless it is the Minolta because I can't fit it :p


PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three frames rendered much warmer are lens A, the more neutral rendering is B..... Bokehs between the two vary quite a bit. I will let the thread run a bit, then do the reveal....


PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Three frames rendered much warmer are lens A, the more neutral rendering is B..... Bokehs between the two vary quite a bit. I will let the thread run a bit, then do the reveal....

I'll bite:

Portrait: #1 Rokkor, #2 Rikenon
Leaves: #1 Rikenon, #2 Rokkor
Branches: #1 Rikenon, #2 Rokkor

Rokkor did significantly better in two of the three shots.
Too bad it weights a ton.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You nailed it.... The rokkor will be staying as my fast 50 ish....


PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The black and white picture of that child from the rokkor is amazing. The rendering on that is superb.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny thing, many owners of the Rokkor actually prefer it at f2, the first detent/click down, the rendering is "smoother", I just like it, period.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like how the Rikenon paints the OOF branches. The Rokkor is smoother. White balance is not much of an issue on digital, but on film the Rokkor would be better I guess.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
Funny thing, many owners of the Rokkor actually prefer it at f2, the first detent/click down, the rendering is "smoother", I just like it, period.

That's because quite a lot of lenses improve bokeh quality with stopping down.
Rokkor 58/1.2 is one of them.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comparison! Seems like the same situation I am in, I have the Minolta 58 1.2 and Nikkor 50 1.2. The Nikkor can’t touch the Minolta’s bokeh at F2 however it is much much sharper at 1.2. Therefore I have convinced myself that I need to keep both, the Nikkor for low light and the Minolta for the bokeh..

Andrew


PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Bittacy wrote:
Thanks for the comparison! Seems like the same situation I am in, I have the Minolta 58 1.2 and Nikkor 50 1.2. The Nikkor can’t touch the Minolta’s bokeh at F2 however it is much much sharper at 1.2. Therefore I have convinced myself that I need to keep both, the Nikkor for low light and the Minolta for the bokeh..

Andrew

For a low light I find resolution to be largely irrelevant.
Sensor noise makes differences in lens resolution indistinguishable.

Something like this is unable to benefit from a sharp lens, because the sensor itself is in trouble:



ISO4000, 2 stops underexposed. Light level corresponds to ISO16000 at this shutter speed.
For low light T-stop is sharpness.

You are however right that Nikkor has an advantage: 50mm makes it easier to avoid shake.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your example shot wasn't taken at F1.2....if I am shooting anything other than a portrait or Isolating a subject. A1.2 lens isn't what I would grab.... Unless you are getting to around f8 a 1.2 won't run with a good native 1.8


PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your example shot wasn't taken at F1.2....if I am shooting anything other than a portrait or Isolating a subject. A1.2 lens isn't what I would grab.... Unless you are getting to around f8 a 1.2 won't run with a good native 1.8


PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both the Rokkor and Rikenon (though mine is labeled Cosina) as well as the Nikkor 50/1.2 Ai-S, and adapt them to Sony mirrorless, APS-C and FF. Unfortunately, my Rokkor has been out of commission for over a year now with a stuck aperture Sad

Anyway, I found the Rikenon/Cosina great for special effects. It creates really insane bokeh when you're wide open at minimum focus and have a close, busy background, like with flowers, grass, or branches. Other than that, I just think of it as a decent 55mm lens that's relatively small for its large aperture.

The Rokkor is larger and heavier, and seems to offer a more refined and well-corrected image. It has pleasant bokeh that smooths out when stopping down slightly (it doesn't have a stop between 1.2 and 2, but I often leave the aperture between the two positions) and people seem to like the results when I take portraits of them with this lens.

My Nikkor 50/1.2 has a more "modern" (to me) rendering, meaning sharp in the middle with higher contrast and strong colors. It is often cited as the sharpest Nikon 50mm lens in the center at f/2. I'm not sure how well it would work as a landscape lens, resolving detail into the corners at small apertures, because I'm sceptical of its ability there and have never tried it. My other Nikon 50mm lens is the Nikkor-H Auto f/2, and I prefer that sometimes when I want a more gentle look that's not as loud as the f/1.2 Ai-S.

This thread is making me miss my Rokkor Mr. Green . I keep intending to take it apart and try to fix it myself, but if I haven't gotten around to doing it by now, maybe I should just pay someone else.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Your example shot wasn't taken at F1.2....

I'm pretty sure I know better whether I did or did not took my shot at F1.2.
I took it at F1.2, it's a fact.

Gatorengineer64 wrote:

if I am shooting anything other than a portrait or Isolating a subject. A1.2 lens isn't what I would grab.... Unless you are getting to around f8 a 1.2 won't run with a good native 1.8

Yes, one has to accept quite a lot of problems with vintage 1.2s.
Sharpness-wise they are in fact not as good stopped down as vintage 1.8s, let alone contemporary ones.

One additional stop of light is one additional stop of light though. When you need one, there is no substitute.
As I've stated above, sharp slower lens won't look sharper under low light conditions due to sensor noise.


PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing your results! I immediately was able to distinguish the Rokkor from the "other" lens - there's no doubt why it's so highly rated ...

S