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Gatorengineer64
Joined: 26 Oct 2017 Posts: 279
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Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:44 am Post subject: Rikenon 55 1.2 vs Minolta 58 1.2 |
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Gatorengineer64 wrote:
If you could keep only one, which onem and why?... I dont find much on these two head to head...... _________________ A7R4, GFX50R and a bucket of mflenses |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10463 Location: California
Expire: 2021-06-22
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Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:29 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Don't know much about the Rikenon. The Rokkor has been popular going back to early days of first manual focus forum at Fred Miranda's site, where a collection of folks thought it good enough to adapt to Canon EOS mount, even selling kits, way before there was any forum dedicated to mflenses, before inexpensive Camera adapters available from Asia. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony A7Rii, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Lenses:
Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200
Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300
Macro-Takumar 1:4/50
Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm
Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element),
Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17
Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500
Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100
Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100
SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
Other lenses:
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
This Rikenon is made by Tomioka IIRC.
And I do like Tomioka, I also love my Rokkor 58/1.2
I don't think you can go wrong with either of them.
Was looking on Flickr for some similar pics between the two...
Rikenon 55/1.2:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/liveactionhero/48575224002/
Rokkor 58/1.2:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/81451464@N03/16490085484/ _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3751 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Rikenon 55 1.2 vs Minolta 58 1.2 |
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stevemark wrote:
Gatorengineer64 wrote: |
If you could keep only one, which onem and why?... I dont find much on these two head to head...... |
If you do own both of these interesting lenses: Compare them, draw your conclusions, and publish them here. Others would be interested as well!
S _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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Gardener
Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 950 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Gardener wrote:
That Rikenon is Tomioka? Then it's a toss up, really. Both are interesting and popular lenses, both capable of producing beautiful images. I like that Tomioka is lighter and smaller. On the other hand, I prefer bayonets to M42. In the end, if I were forced to sell one I'd sell the Rokkor first. |
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Alex TG
Joined: 13 Oct 2019 Posts: 221 Location: Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Alex TG wrote:
Lightshow wrote: |
This Rikenon is made by Tomioka IIRC. |
Most of 55mm Rikenons (both 1.2 and 1.4) are made by Cosina. Some of them are indeed Tomiokas (and they are optically inferior to Cosinas), also a few are made by some another company (Sankor?). |
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y
Joined: 11 Aug 2013 Posts: 304 Location: EU
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Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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y wrote:
Ricoh XR Rikenon 55/1.2 in K-mount is a Cosina lens. It was also sold as MC Revuenon, MC Cosina, and VMC Vivitar Series 1. The Rikenon variant has been sold mainly as the set lens for Ricoh XR Solar camera. This camera was released in early 90's. Its optical performance is much more modern than Tomiokas from 70's.
Compared to Minolta 58/1.2, Ricoh should be more contrasty wide-open but inferior in the build quality.
Minolta will probably keep higher re-sell value. |
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Gatorengineer64
Joined: 26 Oct 2017 Posts: 279
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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Thanks for the input. I will get pictures up of both and try and post a couple of shots with each. Their are some real photographers in this forum and my test shots wont be as good, but hopefully will provide some idea... _________________ A7R4, GFX50R and a bucket of mflenses |
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Gatorengineer64
Joined: 26 Oct 2017 Posts: 279
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Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Gatorengineer64 wrote:
6 Test Pics 3 from each lens..... Sorry mine arent up to some of the great shots taken here usually. Huge difference in the rendering of the two lenses.
_________________ A7R4, GFX50R and a bucket of mflenses |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
Is this a guess which lens made which image contest? Or you forgot to ID which is which. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2483
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:47 am Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
I would keep the first one, unless it is the Minolta because I can't fit it :p _________________ pentaxian |
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Gatorengineer64
Joined: 26 Oct 2017 Posts: 279
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Three frames rendered much warmer are lens A, the more neutral rendering is B..... Bokehs between the two vary quite a bit. I will let the thread run a bit, then do the reveal.... _________________ A7R4, GFX50R and a bucket of mflenses |
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aidaho
Joined: 29 Apr 2018 Posts: 456 Location: Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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aidaho wrote:
Gatorengineer64 wrote: |
Three frames rendered much warmer are lens A, the more neutral rendering is B..... Bokehs between the two vary quite a bit. I will let the thread run a bit, then do the reveal.... |
I'll bite:
Portrait: #1 Rokkor, #2 Rikenon
Leaves: #1 Rikenon, #2 Rokkor
Branches: #1 Rikenon, #2 Rokkor
Rokkor did significantly better in two of the three shots.
Too bad it weights a ton. _________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/curry-hexagon/ |
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Gatorengineer64
Joined: 26 Oct 2017 Posts: 279
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Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Gatorengineer64 wrote:
You nailed it.... The rokkor will be staying as my fast 50 ish.... _________________ A7R4, GFX50R and a bucket of mflenses |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 436
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Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:11 am Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
The black and white picture of that child from the rokkor is amazing. The rendering on that is superb. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
Funny thing, many owners of the Rokkor actually prefer it at f2, the first detent/click down, the rendering is "smoother", I just like it, period. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2483
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Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:31 am Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
I like how the Rikenon paints the OOF branches. The Rokkor is smoother. White balance is not much of an issue on digital, but on film the Rokkor would be better I guess. _________________ pentaxian |
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aidaho
Joined: 29 Apr 2018 Posts: 456 Location: Ukraine
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Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:10 am Post subject: |
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aidaho wrote:
Lightshow wrote: |
Funny thing, many owners of the Rokkor actually prefer it at f2, the first detent/click down, the rendering is "smoother", I just like it, period. |
That's because quite a lot of lenses improve bokeh quality with stopping down.
Rokkor 58/1.2 is one of them. _________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/curry-hexagon/ |
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Mr.Bittacy
Joined: 16 Jun 2019 Posts: 76
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Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:05 am Post subject: |
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Mr.Bittacy wrote:
Thanks for the comparison! Seems like the same situation I am in, I have the Minolta 58 1.2 and Nikkor 50 1.2. The Nikkor can’t touch the Minolta’s bokeh at F2 however it is much much sharper at 1.2. Therefore I have convinced myself that I need to keep both, the Nikkor for low light and the Minolta for the bokeh..
Andrew |
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aidaho
Joined: 29 Apr 2018 Posts: 456 Location: Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:36 am Post subject: |
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aidaho wrote:
Mr.Bittacy wrote: |
Thanks for the comparison! Seems like the same situation I am in, I have the Minolta 58 1.2 and Nikkor 50 1.2. The Nikkor can’t touch the Minolta’s bokeh at F2 however it is much much sharper at 1.2. Therefore I have convinced myself that I need to keep both, the Nikkor for low light and the Minolta for the bokeh..
Andrew |
For a low light I find resolution to be largely irrelevant.
Sensor noise makes differences in lens resolution indistinguishable.
Something like this is unable to benefit from a sharp lens, because the sensor itself is in trouble:
ISO4000, 2 stops underexposed. Light level corresponds to ISO16000 at this shutter speed.
For low light T-stop is sharpness.
You are however right that Nikkor has an advantage: 50mm makes it easier to avoid shake. _________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/curry-hexagon/ |
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Gatorengineer64
Joined: 26 Oct 2017 Posts: 279
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Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Your example shot wasn't taken at F1.2....if I am shooting anything other than a portrait or Isolating a subject. A1.2 lens isn't what I would grab.... Unless you are getting to around f8 a 1.2 won't run with a good native 1.8 _________________ A7R4, GFX50R and a bucket of mflenses |
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Gatorengineer64
Joined: 26 Oct 2017 Posts: 279
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Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Gatorengineer64 wrote:
Your example shot wasn't taken at F1.2....if I am shooting anything other than a portrait or Isolating a subject. A1.2 lens isn't what I would grab.... Unless you are getting to around f8 a 1.2 won't run with a good native 1.8 _________________ A7R4, GFX50R and a bucket of mflenses |
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Crazy Leica Fox
Joined: 29 Apr 2017 Posts: 59
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Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Crazy Leica Fox wrote:
I have both the Rokkor and Rikenon (though mine is labeled Cosina) as well as the Nikkor 50/1.2 Ai-S, and adapt them to Sony mirrorless, APS-C and FF. Unfortunately, my Rokkor has been out of commission for over a year now with a stuck aperture
Anyway, I found the Rikenon/Cosina great for special effects. It creates really insane bokeh when you're wide open at minimum focus and have a close, busy background, like with flowers, grass, or branches. Other than that, I just think of it as a decent 55mm lens that's relatively small for its large aperture.
The Rokkor is larger and heavier, and seems to offer a more refined and well-corrected image. It has pleasant bokeh that smooths out when stopping down slightly (it doesn't have a stop between 1.2 and 2, but I often leave the aperture between the two positions) and people seem to like the results when I take portraits of them with this lens.
My Nikkor 50/1.2 has a more "modern" (to me) rendering, meaning sharp in the middle with higher contrast and strong colors. It is often cited as the sharpest Nikon 50mm lens in the center at f/2. I'm not sure how well it would work as a landscape lens, resolving detail into the corners at small apertures, because I'm sceptical of its ability there and have never tried it. My other Nikon 50mm lens is the Nikkor-H Auto f/2, and I prefer that sometimes when I want a more gentle look that's not as loud as the f/1.2 Ai-S.
This thread is making me miss my Rokkor . I keep intending to take it apart and try to fix it myself, but if I haven't gotten around to doing it by now, maybe I should just pay someone else. |
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aidaho
Joined: 29 Apr 2018 Posts: 456 Location: Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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aidaho wrote:
Gatorengineer64 wrote: |
Your example shot wasn't taken at F1.2.... |
I'm pretty sure I know better whether I did or did not took my shot at F1.2.
I took it at F1.2, it's a fact.
Gatorengineer64 wrote: |
if I am shooting anything other than a portrait or Isolating a subject. A1.2 lens isn't what I would grab.... Unless you are getting to around f8 a 1.2 won't run with a good native 1.8 |
Yes, one has to accept quite a lot of problems with vintage 1.2s.
Sharpness-wise they are in fact not as good stopped down as vintage 1.8s, let alone contemporary ones.
One additional stop of light is one additional stop of light though. When you need one, there is no substitute.
As I've stated above, sharp slower lens won't look sharper under low light conditions due to sensor noise. _________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/curry-hexagon/ |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3751 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
Thanks for sharing your results! I immediately was able to distinguish the Rokkor from the "other" lens - there's no doubt why it's so highly rated ...
S _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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