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bwfcnottingham
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 Posts: 123 Location: Nottingham, England, UK
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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:54 pm Post subject: Stiff focus ring Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar MC 135mm, f3.5 |
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bwfcnottingham wrote:
Hi
I have searched the forum and cannot find an answer ..
The focus ring on the Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar MC 135mm, f3.5 will not rotate from about 12 feet to infinity . I was sure it did in the shop when I bought it. It turns smoothly and then abruptly stops .
I've trawled the internet looking for tips on how to fix the issue , but the one link I found was no longer valid.
I am excited about using the lens as it has great reviews .
Can anybody assist me
Many thanks _________________ Regards, Phil |
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KEO
Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 761 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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KEO wrote:
I'll see if I can find any info for you.
In the mean time, don't take it apart unless you do a lot of research and preparation. Focusing helicoids are generally very easy to disassemble, but very difficult to get back together properly unless you know how to mark them. It's not hard, but it can be tricky for a novice.
If no one responds here, you can also try YouTube. There are a lot of lens repair videos there. |
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bwfcnottingham
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 Posts: 123 Location: Nottingham, England, UK
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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bwfcnottingham wrote:
KEO wrote: |
I'll see if I can find any info for you.
In the mean time, don't take it apart unless you do a lot of research and preparation. Focusing helicoids are generally very easy to disassemble, but very difficult to get back together properly unless you know how to mark them. It's not hard, but it can be tricky for a novice.
If no one responds here, you can also try YouTube. There are a lot of lens repair videos there. |
Thanks for the advice . I was going to just "have a go" , but will hold back 😀 _________________ Regards, Phil |
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KEO
Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 761 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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KEO wrote:
bwfcnottingham wrote: |
Thanks for the advice . I was going to just "have a go" , but will hold back 😀 |
The main problem is that there are multiple different threads on the focusing helicoid, and only one pairing or mating is the right one. There may be four, five, or even more ways to put the helicoid back together, and all of them will fit perfectly and seem correct, but only one way is the right way. If you do it the wrong way you'll lose infinity focus.
Before you separate the threads you have to set the focus to infinity and mark the metal so you can see where the threads are correctly aligned and whether the two parts of the helicoid are screwed together the correct amount. To put it another way, they must be screwed together the correct number of turns. To put it still another way, it's not enough to align them correctly in one dimension; they must be aligned correctly in two dimensions.
That might sound complicated, but it's really not that difficult. As long as you mark the parts of the helicoid before you take them apart, you can always just keep screwing them together until you hit the right thread combination. It can also help a lot to mark the helicoids just before you separate them the first time, so you can see the proper position to introduce the threads.
However, some lenses are more difficult than others. I don't know about the CZJ Sonnar 135 MC, but some of the older CZJ lenses are very tricky. |
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bwfcnottingham
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 Posts: 123 Location: Nottingham, England, UK
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:35 am Post subject: |
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bwfcnottingham wrote:
KEO wrote: |
bwfcnottingham wrote: |
Thanks for the advice . I was going to just "have a go" , but will hold back 😀 |
The main problem is that there are multiple different threads on the focusing helicoid, and only one pairing or mating is the right one. There may be four, five, or even more ways to put the helicoid back together, and all of them will fit perfectly and seem correct, but only one way is the right way. If you do it the wrong way you'll lose infinity focus.
Before you separate the threads you have to set the focus to infinity and mark the metal so you can see where the threads are correctly aligned and whether the two parts of the helicoid are screwed together the correct amount. To put it another way, they must be screwed together the correct number of turns. To put it still another way, it's not enough to align them correctly in one dimension; they must be aligned correctly in two dimensions.
That might sound complicated, but it's really not that difficult. As long as you mark the parts of the helicoid before you take them apart, you can always just keep screwing them together until you hit the right thread combination. It can also help a lot to mark the helicoids just before you separate them the first time, so you can see the proper position to introduce the threads.
However, some lenses are more difficult than others. I don't know about the CZJ Sonnar 135 MC, but some of the older CZJ lenses are very tricky. |
One major issue is I cannot turn the lens to infinity as it gets stuck around 7 feet .
Thanks for the detailed response, much appreciated for sure _________________ Regards, Phil |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10539 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:51 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/612982199264811051/ _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1304 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
I had one of these with a loose focus sleeve. It was an easy fix IIRC. You can start by unscrewing the top end - hood + nameplate - and having a look. Just grip and unscrew. _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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bwfcnottingham
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 Posts: 123 Location: Nottingham, England, UK
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Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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bwfcnottingham wrote:
marcusBMG wrote: |
I had one of these with a loose focus sleeve. It was an easy fix IIRC. You can start by unscrewing the top end - hood + nameplate - and having a look. Just grip and unscrew. |
Thanks for your help and advice Marcus _________________ Regards, Phil |
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bwfcnottingham
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 Posts: 123 Location: Nottingham, England, UK
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Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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bwfcnottingham wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/612982199264811051/ |
Thank you , Pinterest , does'lt let me logon , How strange .... _________________ Regards, Phil |
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KEO
Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 761 Location: USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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KEO wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/612982199264811051/ |
Nice link. I had no idea Pinterest had so much lens repair content. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10539 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
bwfcnottingham wrote: |
visualopsins wrote: |
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/612982199264811051/ |
Thank you , Pinterest , does'lt let me logon , How strange .... |
Strange. For me no logon required. Don't have an account. Maybe your location has restrictions? _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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bwfcnottingham
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 Posts: 123 Location: Nottingham, England, UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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bwfcnottingham wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
bwfcnottingham wrote: |
visualopsins wrote: |
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/612982199264811051/ |
Thank you , Pinterest , does'lt let me logon , How strange .... |
Strange. For me no logon required. Don't have an account. Maybe your location has restrictions? |
I've logged onto Pinterest via my desktop rather than smart phone. When I click on the link in the Pinterest photo it says the website has moved and I am forbidden to access it 😀
I think I might just go for it and have a little faff around with the lens ... cheers everyone 😀📷📸 _________________ Regards, Phil |
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mareinke
Joined: 14 Nov 2013 Posts: 33 Location: LA, CA
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bwfcnottingham
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 Posts: 123 Location: Nottingham, England, UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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bwfcnottingham wrote:
Thanks for the link , he talks about the blades , so I am hoping I can get to the helicoid following his dismantle instructions 😀😀📷 I will try it later in the week _________________ Regards, Phil |
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mareinke
Joined: 14 Nov 2013 Posts: 33 Location: LA, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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mareinke wrote:
bwfcnottingham wrote: |
Thanks for the link , he talks about the blades , so I am hoping I can get to the helicoid following his dismantle instructions 😀😀📷 I will try it later in the week |
check that post, it explains how to reach the helicoid.
Step1:
remove the 2 rods(B), and then unscrew the end casing.
Step2:
Good luck. |
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bwfcnottingham
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 Posts: 123 Location: Nottingham, England, UK
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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bwfcnottingham wrote:
mareinke wrote: |
bwfcnottingham wrote: |
Thanks for the link , he talks about the blades , so I am hoping I can get to the helicoid following his dismantle instructions 😀😀📷 I will try it later in the week |
check that post, it explains how to reach the helicoid.
Step1:
remove the 2 rods(B), and then unscrew the end casing.
Step2:
Good luck. |
mareinke
Thanks for this .
I followed the diagrams and video . Dismantling was easy . Getting to the helicoid and greasing was easy . Reassembly was ok too, but then I saw the issue. When you twiddle the focus ring , the helicoid travels back and hits the base of the lens ie it cannot get to infinity
It's as if the helicoid spirals are not big enough or the screws holding the base are not long enough .
So the focus ring was never stiff it just won't travel back far enough .
Oh in think I might have broken the little bit that makes the pin retract in and out 🙁 _________________ Regards, Phil |
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KEO
Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 761 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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KEO wrote:
bwfcnottingham wrote: |
It's as if the helicoid spirals are not big enough or the screws holding the base are not long enough .
So the focus ring was never stiff it just won't travel back far enough |
Sounds like you might not be the first person to open up the lens. It's possible someone else put it back together incorrectly. |
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mareinke
Joined: 14 Nov 2013 Posts: 33 Location: LA, CA
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Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:44 am Post subject: |
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mareinke wrote:
[quote="bwfcnottingham"][quote="mareinke"][quote="bwfcnottingham"]
mareinke wrote: |
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HynLP228VoU
mareinke
Thanks for this .
I followed the diagrams and video . Dismantling was easy . Getting to the helicoid and greasing was easy . Reassembly was ok too, but then I saw the issue. When you twiddle the focus ring , the helicoid travels back and hits the base of the lens ie it cannot get to infinity
It's as if the helicoid spirals are not big enough or the screws holding the base are not long enough .
So the focus ring was never stiff it just won't travel back far enough .
Oh in think I might have broken the little bit that makes the pin retract in and out 🙁 |
Hi bwfcnottingham,
That was a great start.
People usually add a few witness marks that tells the infinity position.
Part B can be put back in more than one way, but only one entrypoint is correct.
in order to fix this problem, you can redo the whole process with different entry points, adjust it by latest offset, and keep trying until 'lens element travel back normally.'
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bwfcnottingham
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 Posts: 123 Location: Nottingham, England, UK
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Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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bwfcnottingham wrote:
mareinke wrote: |
Hi bwfcnottingham,
That was a great start.
People usually add a few witness marks that tells the infinity position.
Part B can be put back in more than one way, but only one entrypoint is correct.
in order to fix this problem, you can redo the whole process with different entry points, adjust it by latest offset, and keep trying until 'lens element travel back normally.'
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I have assembled the lens so the focus ring now travels back to infinity ...but with snapping the bit that controls the aperture I am stuck with an aperture of f3.5
I will put it down to experience , it was my first attempt at dismantling . I must be more patient and walk away if struggling rather than forcing the parts !!! If I had walked away and returned again I might have been successful . It was only £15 and I have other 135mm lenses in my collection!
Thanks for your guidance _________________ Regards, Phil |
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mareinke
Joined: 14 Nov 2013 Posts: 33 Location: LA, CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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mareinke wrote:
bwfcnottingham wrote: |
mareinke wrote: |
Hi bwfcnottingham,
That was a great start.
People usually add a few witness marks that tells the infinity position.
Part B can be put back in more than one way, but only one entrypoint is correct.
in order to fix this problem, you can redo the whole process with different entry points, adjust it by latest offset, and keep trying until 'lens element travel back normally.'
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I have assembled the lens so the focus ring now travels back to infinity ...but with snapping the bit that controls the aperture I am stuck with an aperture of f3.5
I will put it down to experience , it was my first attempt at dismantling . I must be more patient and walk away if struggling rather than forcing the parts !!! If I had walked away and returned again I might have been successful . It was only £15 and I have other 135mm lenses in my collection!
Thanks for your guidance |
You did good, my first DIY attempt was even worser, I ended up throwing that poor pancolar out of window.
BTW, Superglue or eproxy can still restore the broken parts.
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