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Purchase doubt for 80-90mm focal length
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:57 am    Post subject: Purchase doubt for 80-90mm focal length Reply with quote

Hello,

I'm new to the forum so this is my first post Smile

I have a Olympus EM-10 MkII and I recently discovered the world of "vintage" lenses, so I purchased some russian inexpensive lenses to start: Industar-69 2.8/28mm, collapsible Industar-22 3.5/50mm (these two will be nice to carry around while traveling), Contax/Kiev RF mount lenses Jupiter-12 2.8/35mm, Helios-103 1.8/53mm and Jupiter-11 4/135mm, and Polish enlarging lens PZO Amar/S 4.5/105mm mounted on a M42 helicoid.

My purpose is just to have some nice (if cheap, the better) lenses to play with my Olympus, and have some fun capturing pleasant and unique photos, so now I wanted to purchase a lens with a focal length of around 85mm, so I found the following ones which I already read some posts and reviews in some forums and saw some samples, but I'm still in doubt of which will be the better choice:

- Jupiter-9 2/85mm to complement my Contax/Kiev RF mount lenses;
- Volna-3 2.8/80mm Pentacon-6/Kiev-60 mount (read that this one can be sharper than the J-9, altough the J-9 could produce more pleasant results given its 15 blades);
- Vega-12b 2.8/90mm Pentacon-6/Kiev-60 mount (read different opinions about these last two, some people say Volna is better, others say otherwise);
- Schneider-Kreuznach Retina Tele-Arton 4/85mm DKL mount (the lens is really small and I saw some samples of this lens on a MFT system and I was amazed with the results).

So what are your opinions?

Thanks in advance.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome!

That's a good soviet start kit.

Of the 85mm lenses I only have the Volna 3b. It might be a bit big on your camera and I found that it has a lot of flare. On my Sony a7 I didn't like it much but on my Kiev 60 it was a good combo.

I'd say go for a Jupiter 9 based on online samples. On a m4/3 the sweet center portion looks really good.

One lens to consider if the budget allows is a Carl Zeiss C/Y Sonnar 85mm 2.8. I really want one of these.

And for cheaper medium format alternatives check out the Mamiya Sekor C 80mm 2.8.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blotafton wrote:
Welcome!

That's a good soviet start kit.

Of the 85mm lenses I only have the Volna 3b. It might be a bit big on your camera and I found that it has a lot of flare. On my Sony a7 I didn't like it much but on my Kiev 60 it was a good combo.

I'd say go for a Jupiter 9 based on online samples. On a m4/3 the sweet center portion looks really good.

One lens to consider if the budget allows is a Carl Zeiss C/Y Sonnar 85mm 2.8. I really want one of these.

And for cheaper medium format alternatives check out the Mamiya Sekor C 80mm 2.8.


I'm also pretty much inclined for the Jupiter 9 and the images I could capture with it; I'm not especially worried with the lens possible lack of sharpness, but more with it's bookeh and uniqueness, and that vintage look of the photos.

Regarding the Volna-3, my thought was that it would only make sense to get it and make that investment in the lens and in the corresponding Pentacon/MFT adapter if in the meantime I would eventually purchase another lens for this kind of mount, like the MC TELEAR-5b 5.6/250mm for instance, or get a Kiev-60 body.

The Carl Zeiss would be an excellent choice for sure, but I'm still short on the budget, maybe one day I'll make that upgrade Smile

I've checked also the Mamiya Sekor lens, but I didn't find enough information or samples about that lens and its use with the M43 system, but it seemed to be a good alternative.

Thanks


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiter 9 is a great lens.. I sold mine because I wanted to try a Helios 40 but I actually prefer the look of the Jupiter 9 more so I might go back to one. The Jupiter 9 is decently sharp and has very smooth bokeh, not that large either to carry around... the Zeiss 85 2.8 is an awesome lens if you want a very modern looking rendering, but it can almost be too sharp and contrasty if that’s a thing, I like it for landscapes though. If you go Jupiter 9 I would recommend looking for an early kmz made Lens, in my opinion they are really good quality.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Bittacy wrote:
Jupiter 9 is a great lens.. I sold mine because I wanted to try a Helios 40 but I actually prefer the look of the Jupiter 9 more so I might go back to one. The Jupiter 9 is decently sharp and has very smooth bokeh, not that large either to carry around... the Zeiss 85 2.8 is an awesome lens if you want a very modern looking rendering, but it can almost be too sharp and contrasty if that’s a thing, I like it for landscapes though. If you go Jupiter 9 I would recommend looking for an early kmz made Lens, in my opinion they are really good quality.


Thanks for the heads up regarding the KMZ made Jupiter-9. I remember reading that for instance the latest models with black barrel were the worst ones, and the probability of getting a faulty one was bigger.

It should be easy to find one, hopefully I'll be able to get a good copy.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pentacon 6 mount lenses will dwarf your camera. I am a big fan of the tele-arton. It is small and very very sharp. It is not a typical portrait lens that are a bit soft wide open to disguise skin flaws in a subject. I can't speak to the jupiter as I don't have that lens.

samples from mfl regulars can be seen here:
http://forum.mflenses.com/schneider-retina-tele-arton-85mm-f4-t62318.html

http://forum.mflenses.com/schneider-tele-arton-85mm-f4-samples-on-a7ii-t77707,highlight,%2Bschneider+%2Btele+%2Barton.html


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also I should mention helical adapters. I have for my a7 camera (NEX mount) a helical adapter which allows close focus with these DKL mount lenses. I would be surprised if they wer not available for the OM-D as well.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamaeolus wrote:
Also I should mention helical adapters. I have for my a7 camera (NEX mount) a helical adapter which allows close focus with these DKL mount lenses. I would be surprised if they wer not available for the OM-D as well.


The only kind of adapters I've found for Micro 4/3 was like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Voigtlander-Retina-DKL-Lens-to-Micro-4-3-MFT-M4-3-M43-Mount-Adapter-DKL-M43-Y/283060169860?hash=item41e7b36c84:g:PQMAAOSwNaNbTVcu

I also found a Voigtlander Dynarex 3.4/90mm with DKL mount that looks also really small and should capture nice pictures.

The samples from the Tele-Arton lens look really really nice!


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a great fan of the Jupiter-9, it was one of the reasons I bought a Zorki camera "back in the day" ... the camera is long retired but the lens lives on with my Samsung NX5!

My 85mm Tele-Arton is also a dream to use, as are all the other Schneider lenses I have from my Retina IIIS. Just two "problems", it's only f/4, so two stops slower than the Jupiter-9, and the DKL mount might be difficult to adapt directly. I use a DKL-PK adaptor on mine.

Good luck and enjoy Smile


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dynarex is also a very nice lens though not as compact.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Regarding the DKL, I thought of using a metal DKL-M42 adapter and then a slim M42-M43 adapter. It would be slimmer than a DKL-M43 adapter and better looking.

I guess I will get a Jupiter 9 to start with and then later on eventually try a Tele Arton or other retina lens, or maybe the Mamiya Sekor C 2.8/80mm as it was suggested.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Regarding the DKL, I thought of using a metal DKL-M42 adapter and then a slim M42-M43 adapter. It would be slimmer than a DKL-M43 adapter and better looking.

I guess I will get a Jupiter 9 to start with and then later on eventually try a Tele Arton or other retina lens, or maybe the Mamiya Sekor C 2.8/80mm as it was suggested.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carrots99 wrote:
I guess I will get a Jupiter 9 to start with and then later on eventually try a Tele Arton or other retina lens, or maybe the Mamiya Sekor C 2.8/80mm as it was suggested.


The Jupiter-9 is one of the best deals you can get on an 85. As long as you get a good copy, it has wonderful color and character, and it's sharp enough wide open. As others have said, I recommend an old silver one. KMZ is generally considered the best, but I have a slightly later LZOS copy that's just as good as my KMZ. I'd try to find one with the focal length written as 8.5cm, as they later switched to 85mm.

I don't know whether you're interested in adapting Nikon lenses, but the old 85mm Nikkor-H Auto 1.8 is also one of the cheapest 85s you can get, and it's a very good lens.

I've often seen people recommending the 9cm Leica Elmar f/4, and those are not too expensive, but I don't have one.

I like my Deckel-mount lenses, but they tend to have very long minimum focusing distances, so you're probably better off stacking a DKL-M42 adapter on top of an M42 adapter with it's own helicoid, just so you can focus on close subjects at a reasonable distance. That's what I do.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mamiya 80mm might be too good for the task, i.e. lacking "character". But this can be nice to have in certain situations.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try to get a Jupiter-9 for that "special character" kind of lens.

Then in the meantime, for sharper and better quality photos, I'll think about getting either a Schneider-Kreuznach or a Mamiya-Sekor. Both made me curious


PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you already have the adapters for enlarger lenses, there are many 80 and 90mm f/4, f/4.5 and f/5.6 lenses you could try, Schneider Componon-S for instance or EL-Nikkor. Projection lenses can be fun as well, nice neutral ones like the Colorplan 90/2.5 or more say creative ones like the Meyer or Pentacon 80/2.8. If you prefer normal camera lenses, the Schneider Robot Tele Xenar 75 and 90 f/3.8 are nice and compact and sharp. Also the Leica Elmar-C 90/4 or equivalent Minolta M-Rokkor 90/4 can sometimes be found relatively cheaply.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just went to check about the Leica Elmar 4/90, it's a very beautiful lens.

Regarding the enlarger lens, I have a Durst Neonon 2.8/50 (some say that this version was made by Pentax) reversely mounted with a step up ring and using an helicoid for macro photography. Never thought of using an enlarger lens for "normal photography".

...already had the crazy idea though, of using instead a projector LOMO lens with a helicoid.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may want to check the Carl Zeiss Jena Biometar 80mm 2.8. The Exakta-version is usually pretty affordable. I really like this lens.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CZJ 80/2.8 Tessar is a nice, not that expensive option under $200 which is cheaper than the Biometar.
http://forum.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-jena-tessar-80-2-8-exa-mount-t19529.html


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW there are many nice 80-90mm lenses, lots of portrait and macro lenses. A nice allrounder is the CZJ Pancolar 80/1.8, not too big, a bit expensive perhaps. The Minolta MC 85/1.7 and f/2 are nice as well, as are most 85/2.0 portrait lenses of the larger brands, probably, haven't tried all of them... Some of the macro lenses you may consider are the Panagor and Vivitar 90/2.8, so not the Series 1 f/2.5 version. The f/2.8 lenses tend to be quite affordable, the f/2.5 S1 and the Tokina 90/2.5 are good as well, a little better, but more expensive. For extremely limited DoF I use Canon FD 85/1.2, not lightweight or affordable though.

So from my collection if compactness and easy of use are the prime considerations I'd pick the Leica CL 90/4 or Robot 90/3.8, both on a helicoid adapter. For allround use the Pancolar 80/1.8, for macro the Tokina 90/2.5, for portraits the Canon 85/1.2 FD Asph. As I already own these lenses, price isn't a consideration in this choice. If price is a major concern, I'd go for a Vivitar 90/2.8, a bit on the larger side but with a massive focus throw to 1:1.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, if you fancy something completely different, look out for a Fujinon 85mm f/4 "Soft Focus", with built-in diffuser Wink


PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Purchase doubt for 80-90mm focal length Reply with quote

carrots99 wrote:
Hello,



- Jupiter-9 2/85mm to complement my Contax/Kiev RF mount lenses;
- Volna-3 2.8/80mm Pentacon-6/Kiev-60 mount (read that this one can be sharper than the J-9, altough the J-9 could produce more pleasant results given its 15 blades);
- Vega-12b 2.8/90mm Pentacon-6/Kiev-60 mount (read different opinions about these last two, some people say Volna is better, others say otherwise);
- Schneider-Kreuznach Retina Tele-Arton 4/85mm DKL mount (the lens is really small and I saw some samples of this lens on a MFT system and I was amazed with the results).

.

I tried 3 if them, Jupiter 9 has best bokeh, fastest. Volna prone to flare against strong light, Vega has performance similar to Leica elmarit 90/2,8 (but of course different)
Never tried Arton.
I had leica elmar 90/4 which is good, voight apo lantar 90/3,5 is better in handling light and contrast, but funny elmar has better Ca control
now i use lots of projector lenses in this focal length, cheaper, but need to modify and little creativity. the results is satisfy me.
I use Visionar series, meopta, prokinar etc.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pancolar 1.8/80mm or the Topcor 1.8/85mm gets my vote (the latter more rare and pricy)
and of course also the SMC Takumar 1.8/85mm. But if it has to be from your list, without
doubt it would be the Jupiter-9 f2/85mm Wink

Jupiter-9 85mm (1956) Album:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums/72157680302567715


PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of great options for this focal length spectrum for sure Smile

The CZJ Pancolar 80/1.8 and the Leica 90/4 for sure are very interesting and beautiful lenses to take into consideration.

For now I want to have an affordable lens that is not too heavy and produces sharp enough photos, with a good bookeh, and unique character.
I'll see if I have budget for the Leica or the CZJ Tessar, otherwise I'll try the Jupiter-9 for now, as per the majority of suggestions.

My Wishlist will contain at least the following:
- CZJ Pancolar 80/1.8 (totally out of budget for now).
- CZJ Tessar 80/2.8 (more affordable).
- Leica Ernst Leitz 90/4 (slower than the other two but still interesting and with a good quality/price ratio, and the lens looks "sexy", especially the older black barrel version).
- Mamiya Sekor C 80/2.8 (probably bulkier than the others).
- Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Tele-Arton 85/4 (a good one to have for traveling purposes, for being smaller).

For macro, for now I use a Durst Neonon 50/2.8 reversely mounted; I'll think about an upgrade afterwards (possibly a EL-Nikkor 63/2.8 ). The Tokina 90/2.5 should be a nice addition, also the gigantic Vivitar 90/2.8 Smile

Regarding the projection lenses, it's good to know about those ones, thanks. I already have an idea or two of a DIY project using one kind of this lenses (the 16KP RO109 50/1.2 or the "Helios" 90/2 for instance).


PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carrots99 wrote:
Lots of great options for this focal length spectrum for sure Smile

The CZJ Pancolar 80/1.8 and the Leica 90/4 for sure are very interesting and beautiful lenses to take into consideration.

For now I want to have an affordable lens that is not too heavy and produces sharp enough photos, with a good bookeh, and unique character.
I'll see if I have budget for the Leica or the CZJ Tessar, otherwise I'll try the Jupiter-9 for now, as per the majority of suggestions.

My Wishlist will contain at least the following:
- CZJ Pancolar 80/1.8 (totally out of budget for now).
- CZJ Tessar 80/2.8 (more affordable).
- Leica Ernst Leitz 90/4 (slower than the other two but still interesting and with a good quality/price ratio, and the lens looks "sexy", especially the older black barrel version).
- Mamiya Sekor C 80/2.8 (probably bulkier than the others).
- Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Tele-Arton 85/4 (a good one to have for traveling purposes, for being smaller).

For macro, for now I use a Durst Neonon 50/2.8 reversely mounted; I'll think about an upgrade afterwards (possibly a EL-Nikkor 63/2.8 ). The Tokina 90/2.5 should be a nice addition, also the gigantic Vivitar 90/2.8 Smile

Regarding the projection lenses, it's good to know about those ones, thanks. I already have an idea or two of a DIY project using one kind of this lenses (the 16KP RO109 50/1.2 or the "Helios" 90/2 for instance).


The Tokina 90/2.5 is heavier than the Vivitar 90/2.8, 530g vs 480g. If weight is a primary concern, the Schneider Robot 90/3.8 weighs only 141g vs 246g for the Leica C 90/4. I can't find the weight for the Tele Arton though. At 308g the Pancolar is quite lightweight for an f/1.8 lens.