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Konica AR 35mm f2 and issues
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:38 am    Post subject: Konica AR 35mm f2 and issues Reply with quote
Got a Konica AR 35mm f/2. From the limited information on the internet, some say it is sharp wide open; other say it has to stop down. I wanted to try on my own, but unfortunately, the copy I got has some issues. The first issue is the knurled focus ring can rotate freely but doesn't engage the helicoid. Usually, there are set screws but on this lens, there is none. The second issue is the aperture hole doesn't change at f11 and f16 (also the half click in between f11 and f16). The aperture blades have oil and quite sticky. At f2, looking inside the lens, I can still see the edge of the aperture blades. Please see the attached photos. Can any of fellow members let me know how hard it can be to fix the issues? Thank you very much for any information.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Konica AR 35mm f2 and issues Reply with quote
Remove the name ring on the front and you ll find the 3 screws for the focusing ring. I think they are loose because the grease on the focusing helicoids is dried out and it s stiff to the point that the screws loosen. If that is the case the lens needs a full CLA. The aperture doesn t fully open and stop down because there is probably a lot of oil on the blades, so a complete cleaning is needed. It impossible to tell you how complicated it s to work on this lens as this depends on the level of experience one has with CLA. From your questions my guess is you don t have much experience, so my advice is not to work on it.
The lens is one of the sharpest vintage 35 mm, it compares well with my Minolta 35/1.8 and it holds it s own compared to the Samyang 35/1.4, simply a great lens.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Konica AR 35mm f2 and issues Reply with quote
tomasg wrote:
The lens is one of the sharpest vintage 35 mm, it compares well with my Minolta 35/1.8 and it holds it s own compared to the Samyang 35/1.4, simply a great lens.


I shall agree. My copy is well worn and still it is my sharpest 35 (and I have many). It is sharp even wide open.

BTW Does anybody know why the later version with rubber ring is much more rare? The same goes for 100mm f2.8. I've seen many on ebay, but very few rubber ones and they are normally very expensive. Optically they shall be the same AFAIR.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Konica AR 35mm f2 and issues Reply with quote
Manichaean wrote:
tomasg wrote:
The lens is one of the sharpest vintage 35 mm, it compares well with my Minolta 35/1.8 and it holds it s own compared to the Samyang 35/1.4, simply a great lens.


I shall agree. My copy is well worn and still it is my sharpest 35 (and I have many). It is sharp even wide open.

BTW Does anybody know why the later version with rubber ring is much more rare? The same goes for 100mm f2.8. I've seen many on ebay, but very few rubber ones and they are normally very expensive. Optically they shall be the same AFAIR.


Same lens: http://www.buhla.de/Foto/Konica/Objektive/e35_2.html

I guess the version with rubber on the focusing ring came into production late?


PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks. Before I posted, I actually took the name plate off and took the front group off and the aperture blades are exposed. I found there vertical screws but didn't get how those would laterally hold the focus ring. There must be other stuff that holds the focus ring.

For the not fully opened aperture blades, usually what I saw is stuck open. So this one is different.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vivaldibow wrote:
Thanks. Before I posted, I actually took the name plate off and took the front group off and the aperture blades are exposed. I found there vertical screws but didn't get how those would laterally hold the focus ring. There must be other stuff that holds the focus ring.

For the not fully opened aperture blades, usually what I saw is stuck open. So this one is different.


Trust me they do, i CLAed a 57 f1.2 and a 35 f2.8 with the same focusing ring (heels and valleys). Nothing unusual with those vertical screws holding the focusing ring, some other brands do it too. If you tighten them down and the focusing ring turns but it doesn t focus, then my guess would be the the internal "keys" for the focusing helicoids are missing or are not screwed in place. Also not uncommon for the aperture being frozen that way, you can try this, close the aperture ring to f16 then try to move the black aperture lever that is sticking out near the mount, this is normally closed down by an internal spring but you can move it with you finger.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tomasg wrote:
vivaldibow wrote:
Thanks. Before I posted, I actually took the name plate off and took the front group off and the aperture blades are exposed. I found there vertical screws but didn't get how those would laterally hold the focus ring. There must be other stuff that holds the focus ring.

For the not fully opened aperture blades, usually what I saw is stuck open. So this one is different.


Trust me they do, i CLAed a 57 f1.2 and a 35 f2.8 with the same focusing ring (heels and valleys). Nothing unusual with those vertical screws holding the focusing ring, some other brands do it too. If you tighten them down and the focusing ring turns but it doesn t focus, then my guess would be the the internal "keys" for the focusing helicoids are missing or are not screwed in place. Also not uncommon for the aperture being frozen that way, you can try this, close the aperture ring to f16 then try to move the black aperture lever that is sticking out near the mount, this is normally closed down by an internal spring but you can move it with you finger.


Here the 35 f2.8, be careful not to turn too much the focusing helicoid, it s now without stops and if you focus toward minimum focusing distance the male helicoid that contains the optical blocks will separate from it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the photos. I'll need to take some photos tonight after I get back home. From my quick check yesterday, the 35mm f2 seems a little different from the 35mm f2.8 in terms of mechanical construction. Interesting thing is this 35mm f2 seems similar to Nikon 35mm f2. For both of them, the front groups can be screwed off.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I really like these all metal lenses, sometimes I believe it has to do more with the feeling ,but the image result ,in your case , there would be 2 in 1 as it seems the lens should be very sharp .


PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vivaldibow wrote:
Thanks for the photos. I'll need to take some photos tonight after I get back home. From my quick check yesterday, the 35mm f2 seems a little different from the 35mm f2.8 in terms of mechanical construction. Interesting thing is this 35mm f2 seems similar to Nikon 35mm f2. For both of them, the front groups can be screwed off.


No problem. Differences in the construction are always possible of course. Basically all lenses have a front and rear optical group most of the vintage 35 mm lenses are a retrofocus design, meaning the front group is made of one big front element, a "lot" of space and than some smaller elements. All the lenses could have one optical group but designers have to split it because of the aperture, more percisely because the aperture must be somehow connected/engaged with the mechanism on the mount/camera.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tomasg wrote:


Here the 35 f2.8, be careful not to turn too much the focusing helicoid, it s now without stops and if you focus toward minimum focusing distance the male helicoid that contains the optical blocks will separate from it.
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I took a photo of my current stage of disassembly. I couldn't see the gap between focus ring and the lens barrel, as in your 1st photo above, which exposes the helicoid.

After I removed the name plate and the front lens group, it exposed the inner side of the helicoid. I only saw two small
screws (one of them is missing). I unscrewed the remaining and tried some wiggle of the black ring and it didn't do
anything. I was hoping by removing the black ring, I could see more. May I know how you removed the focus ring?
I have a similar Konica 35mm f/2.8. I may be able to use as a reference. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah, i should have know that although it has the metal focusing ring it s built more like the 35 f2 with the rubber on the focusing ring. So here it goes the f2 version:



Your picture show one screw and some holes for additional screws, that s different from mine, only one screw, once untightened (better to remove it completly in your case), you have to turn the black ring counter clock wise, you ll probably need a bit of force:





Once removed it should expose another ring, on my lens an alu one, this ring holds the entire optical assembly in place, remove that and you ll be able to pull it out. BUT i warn you it s tricky to put it back without touching the mount part. As you can see on my lens this still doesen t give us access to the focusing screws, i think on your it should give it, if not than your 35 is the same as the 57 f1.2 lens in the sense that you have to untighten the screws with a thin screwdriver as they are and turn a bit the focusing ring pull up it up. I again warn you, it s a big pain in the ass to put the focusing ring and the screws back as youhave to position (not screw in) the screws, cover them with the focusing ring and work with a screwdriver with a magnetic tip to place them on the holes and screw them in. This is at least you have to do it on the metal ring version of the 57 f1.2. NOTE the picture shows the focusing ring aready split



They changd that later and split the focusing ring in two parts:



to give normal acces to the screws:



As i already said, removing that ring under the black one allows you to pull out the complete optical assembly:



If you do that don t remove that alu retaining ring inside it holds the bearings of the aperture actuation mechanism, you don t want to fiddle with that, trust me Smile



PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tomasg wrote:
Ah, i should have know that although it has the metal focusing ring it s built more like the 35 f2 with the rubber on the focusing ring. So here it goes the f2 version:



Appreciate the extra photos. Very helpful. I'll try more tonight.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vivaldibow wrote:
tomasg wrote:
Ah, i should have know that although it has the metal focusing ring it s built more like the 35 f2 with the rubber on the focusing ring. So here it goes the f2 version:



Appreciate the extra photos. Very helpful. I'll try more tonight.


You re welcome, i hope it s not like the 57 f1.2 which has the screws partially hidden and are very difficult to put back. If so there is an alternative way to open the lens from the back, getting access to the helicoid key and remove it, which allows the other two helicoids to turn freely. If you re from Europe and pay the shipping you can send me the lens and i ll CLA it.

Tomas


PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tomasg wrote:
If you re from Europe and pay the shipping you can send me the lens and i ll CLA it.

Tomas


Tomas, appreciate your offer on the CLA. I am based in the US. I think I will try it find a way to fix at least the focus ring so the lens can be used.: )


PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: Konica AR 35mm f2 and issues Reply with quote
vivaldibow wrote:
Got a Konica AR 35mm f/2. From the limited information on the internet, some say it is sharp wide open; other say it has to stop down.

The Konica AR 2/35mm is one of the oldest computations for a fast retrofocus 35mm lens, and that easily can be seen when comparing it to newer designs from the 1970s and 1980s. I have published these results earlier here on mflenses, but here they are again:


It would be extremely surprising to find a Konica AR 2/35mm which has sharp FF corners at f4, let alone wide open.

Strephan


PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Konica AR 35mm f2 and issues Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
vivaldibow wrote:
Got a Konica AR 35mm f/2. From the limited information on the internet, some say it is sharp wide open; other say it has to stop down.

The Konica AR 2/35mm is one of the oldest computations for a fast retrofocus 35mm lens, and that easily can be seen when comparing it to newer designs from the 1970s and 1980s.
It would be extremely surprising to find a Konica AR 2/35mm which has sharp FF corners at f4, let alone wide open.

Strephan


All is relative. For me personally it really doesn t matter how the corners are wide open at infinity, the only application where this would matter would be astro, for that rare occasions i have the Samyang 35/1.4. The same for the center at infinity, i see no point in wide open landscape pictures. That said after i saw your post i had to test my copy Smile Just handheld out of my window on a rainy day. At f4 it does a decent job in my opinion, of course the far corners aren t sharp, they do get better at f5.6 though.

f4

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100% crops

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f5.6


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At f2


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As i said at the beginning all is relative, nobody is expecting such an old design to perform the same as the newer ones. I like it as a smallish walk around (it s smaller and lighter than the Rokkor 35/1.8 i have), like the colors and contrast. At closer distances the lens performs even beter.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Konica AR 35mm f2 and issues Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:

The Konica AR 2/35mm is one of the oldest computations for a fast retrofocus 35mm lens, and that easily can be seen when comparing it to newer designs from the 1970s and 1980s. I have published these results earlier here on mflenses, but here they are again:
Strephan


Stephan, as always, your comparison photos are really informative. Although the Konica 35mm f/2 lags behind in your test, I am still eager to see its center performance or overall rendering after I fixed the focus ring of my copy. It is also good to see Minolta MC-X 35mm f1.8 performs relatively good compared to others, as it is another lens I have.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Konica AR 35mm f2 and issues Reply with quote
The last one is really nice! Like 1 Like 1 Like 1


PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Konica AR 35mm f2 and issues Reply with quote
vivaldibow wrote:

Stephan, as always, your comparison photos are really informative. Although the Konica 35mm f/2 lags behind in your test, I am still eager to see its center performance or overall rendering after I fixed the focus ring of my copy. It is also good to see Minolta MC-X 35mm f1.8 performs relatively good compared to others, as it is another lens I have.


Obvioulsy countless important and interesting images were taken with the Nikkor 1.4/35mm, a lens that only can be judged as "poor" when comparing it to modern 1.4/35mm designs. Similar problems are common with many other fast vintage wideangles for SLRs (Minolta AF 1.4/35mm, Konica AR 1.8/28mm, Canon FD 1.4/24mm, ...). Using these lenses with a fast b/w film can result in outstanding images - nevertheless i would never claim that these lenses are good. They have character, they are interesting - yes, i do agree about that Wink

Stephan
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