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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 436
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:42 pm Post subject: Vivitar 28 2.0 Close Focus Komine Disassembly |
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cbass wrote:
I have never disassembled a lens before. I picked up a Vivitar 28 2.0 Close focus and there appears to be slight haze under the front element or even beyond. I am not sure if I should keep it, try to clean it, or return it. Can anyone give me some guidance on disassembling the lens? I did some searching online, but have not been able to find anything. |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1301 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
There is stuff around if you look. The structure of many of the versions is often similar so don't restrict your searches to f2 versions or close focus versions. This is a komine made 28mm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0-2B1jiKFQ
This is on this site:
http://forum.mflenses.com/vivitar-28mm-f2-8-a-cleaning-attempt-t73504.html
and there is this:
https://elliotkang.wordpress.com/2012/05/13/disassembly-of-vivitar-28mm-f2-8/ _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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Gardener
Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 950 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: Vivitar 28 2.0 Close Focus Komine Disassembly |
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Gardener wrote:
Don't bother, it's of no practical consequence. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: Vivitar 28 2.0 Close Focus Komine Disassembly |
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Lightshow wrote:
cbass wrote: |
I have never disassembled a lens before. I picked up a Vivitar 28 2.0 Close focus and there appears to be slight haze under the front element or even beyond. I am not sure if I should keep it, try to clean it, or return it. Can anyone give me some guidance on disassembling the lens? I did some searching online, but have not been able to find anything. |
It's worth having it cleaned, I just don't think it's a good lens to learn on, I recommend a Helios 44-2 as your first lens to cut your teeth on. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 436
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Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
By worth having it cleaned, does that mean sending it to a professional service? If so, then I am not familiar with too many of those. I have contacted some in the past about another lens, but the prices they quoted I was better off just finding another copy of the lens. I do have a helios, but that lens is pristine, has sentimental value, and it one of my best performing lenses. There is no way I will take it apart. |
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vivaldibow
Joined: 23 Jun 2018 Posts: 835
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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vivaldibow wrote:
cbass wrote: |
By worth having it cleaned, does that mean sending it to a professional service? If so, then I am not familiar with too many of those. I have contacted some in the past about another lens, but the prices they quoted I was better off just finding another copy of the lens. I do have a helios, but that lens is pristine, has sentimental value, and it one of my best performing lenses. There is no way I will take it apart. |
I got one with fungus and I opened the front pressing ring and clean it a little bit. The coating on the front has a larger water mark pattern. But the image quality doesn't seem to suffer. Now I got another one and can do a comparison. I think bargains do exist and be patient you will get another one. I've seen quite a few in 2018 and 2019 selling for very reasonable price. |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 436
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Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:02 am Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
I managed to get the name plate off and as I was taking pictures I managed to capture the haze very well. Does anyone know what this haze is and if it can be cleaned? It is inside the lens and not outside. Also seems to be only on the front element. Is that what others see?
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55
Joined: 13 May 2013 Posts: 700 Location: U.S.
Expire: 2022-06-15
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Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: |
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55 wrote:
cbass wrote: |
. . . Does anyone know what this haze is and if it can be cleaned? It is inside the lens and not outside. Also seems to be only on the front element. Is that what others see?
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Even in person, it's often difficult for me to know exactly where haze is without taking a lens apart. And in my experience, if I can get to the haze, it usually wipes right off. The hardest part for me is to get the glass free of streaks, smudges and dust.
I searched for an optical diagram of your lens, and I think I found it on a lens box in an ebay listing:
Click here to see on Ebay
Is that one the same as your lens? I hope so because it appears the front elements aren't cemented together. In that case you may not have to worry about haze between cemented elements.
My own Vivitar 28 f2.0 is the same as the one on ebay. I've never worked on my lens before, but I just took the name ring off to have a look. It appears as though the front element retainer might (?) simply unscrew - if you can get access to it. Or if you have a lens spanner, I see slots in the chrome ring below.
If you proceed, go slowly and note the orientation of parts before you remove them. Heat can help loosen stubborn rings. |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1301 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
Is that haze in the lens or on the top element? It's hard to tell from the pic but it does look a bit like coating deterioration/wear. If so that can't be fixed.
Won't be that of course if it's in the lens. I would expect it to clean off in that case. I use basic optical wipes dipped in acetone.
Scratches on the lens spanner slots on the lens suggest it's been opened up before, or s/o tried to. _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 436
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Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
That is the same as my lens and indeed the correct optical diagram. It does look like the front element is not cemented.
What is a front element retainer? Is that the silver ring? I followed the Vivitar 28 2.8 video and in that one the group just unscrewed. I tried the same with gloves and had no such luck. I didn't really crank on it, but I think the silver ring needs to come off. So it seems to be slightly different.
There are scratches on the silver ring and it appears somebody already put a spanner wrench on it and had it apart already. This worries me as I wonder if the haze is left over from someone cleaning up fungus and the haze is coating damage.
The Haze is inside the lens, not outside. I already cleaned the outside of the lens. When I shine a led light the outside coating appears fine. It will see a uniform and even green reflection.
Lens performs great when it comes to sharpness, but it takes a hit when it comes to contrast.
Do I need to mark anything for alignment? Do I need to make sure anything is aligned? Aperture closed? Aperture stopped down? At minimum or maximum focus distance? |
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aidaho
Joined: 29 Apr 2018 Posts: 456 Location: Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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aidaho wrote:
cbass wrote: |
Lens performs great when it comes to sharpness, but it takes a hit when it comes to contrast.
Do I need to mark anything for alignment? Do I need to make sure anything is aligned? Aperture closed? Aperture stopped down? At minimum or maximum focus distance? |
Looks like a simple haze to me.
You don't need to mark anything, lens retainers are pretty much a centering apparatus for an individual lenses.
If you plan to remove several lenses, optical diagram can be handy as to avoid putting a lens back in upside-down position.
It's often obvious if you do, but sometimes it isn't.
Get a lens spanner. Looks like the previous attempt to open it was made with a screwdriver, using only one slot. _________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/curry-hexagon/ |
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55
Joined: 13 May 2013 Posts: 700 Location: U.S.
Expire: 2022-06-15
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Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:29 am Post subject: |
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55 wrote:
cbass wrote: |
. . .
What is a front element retainer? Is that the silver ring?
. . . |
To add to what aidaho said, sometimes the front name plate is used to hold the front element or group in place. And sometimes there's a black, threaded ring / retainer below the name plate which holds the front element(s) in place. In this case, I just assumed the black ring on top of the element or the ring surrounding the element were retainers and might screw off. I know you already tried, but I wish there were a way you could gently, but firmly grasp the ring(s) around the front element.
I can see now that bulbous front element makes it difficult to try to loosen the (retaining?) ring on top of it. I just used the open end of a small bottle with a rubber glove to try to loosen that ring, but mine wouldn't move either.
Next, I'd use a lens spanner to try to loosen the slotted, silver ring - whatever it may be. When I try to clean lenses, it's often trial and error to find the correct pieces to loosen.
In fact, I just gave the silver ring on my own lens a try with my spanner, but it wouldn't budge. And since my lens is already clean, I'm not going to try any harder.
Heat and or solvents might be needed if the retainers / rings are cemented in place.
I think a dedicated lens spanner is the best tool, and they don't cost much on ebay. But there are alternatives:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/114-maintenance-repair-articles/199396-spanner-wrench-substitutes.html |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 436
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Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:23 am Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
Well I failed. The lens is still fine, but I can't get anything apart. I put on a latex gloves and tried to unscrew the lens elements. Then I borrowed a lens spanner and tried to remove the silver ring. Nothing will budge and I am applying a good amount of force. I'm not sure I want to apply anymore. |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 436
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:38 am Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
I decided not to accept defeat and tried again. I managed to get the lens apart and back together. I did not need the lens spanner wrench. I will post a guide tomorrow after I gather pictures and organize them in order to help others. |
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vivaldibow
Joined: 23 Jun 2018 Posts: 835
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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vivaldibow wrote:
cbass wrote: |
I decided not to accept defeat and tried again. I managed to get the lens apart and back together. I did not need the lens spanner wrench. I will post a guide tomorrow after I gather pictures and organize them in order to help others. |
nice. Looking forward to it. |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1301 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
well done.
If you are agreable, I'l add your info (with credit) to the piece I already wrote on the kiron made 28mm f2:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/114-maintenance-repair-articles/391582-kiron-vivitar-28mm-f2-24mm-f2-sticky-iris-fix.html _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 436
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Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
You can use anything I posted here. You can give me credit if you like, but I am also ok if you don't. I am posting this in case it helps someone. I didn't disassemble the whole lens so it's not a complete guide. This is just to access front elements. I didn't do anything with the rear elements or aperture.
Here is how I managed to get the lens apart. After removing the name plate I was trying to unscrew the elements as well as trying to use a spanner wrench on the silver ring. The barrel is tall and that made things difficult to grab and the risk of damage to threads and other parts high.
I finally figured out that I could remove the metal barrel by just unscrewing it. Grab the lens and turn left and it will come off.
This gave me better access to grab around the elements and twist. The black ring around the front element just twists off giving you access.
At this point you can remove the front element as well as several other elements. Here I suggest you don't do what I did and turn the lens and tap it against your hand. This resulted in a bunch of pieces and elements spilling out; front element, second element, some other ring, and the third element. If you have a lens suction cup than use it. Otherwise try something like gaffer's tape or something else to move the elements you need. Here having the optical formula picture from the ebay link posted in this thread helped in getting it back together.
From here I just ended up cleaning the first three elements. I used cotton swabs and alcohol and then switched to a mirofiber cloth and lens cleaner that I had laying around. I would appreciate any input on how to properly clean the elements as I struggled here.
The cotton swabs were a disaster. I put the lens back together, looked through the glass and saw a bunch of cotton fibers. I then took it apart again and used a blower to get rid of the. This worked and the lens is really clean and free of all fibers with minimal dust.
The haze came off. Glass looks pretty good now:
What can't be seen in pictures but can be seen by my eyes is there are some round specs in a few areas. I am not sure if this is just patches of coating that have degraded or if those are spots that I didn't manage to clean off. I am not sure if I should attempt a second cleaning or just move on with my life as they are unlikely to effect image quality. |
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55
Joined: 13 May 2013 Posts: 700 Location: U.S.
Expire: 2022-06-15
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Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:39 am Post subject: |
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55 wrote:
cbass wrote: |
. . .
The haze came off. Glass looks pretty good now... |
Persistence pays! And your information will be helpful to others.
cbass wrote: |
What can't be seen in pictures but can be seen by my eyes is there are some round specs in a few areas. I am not sure if this is just patches of coating that have degraded or if those are spots that I didn't manage to clean off. I am not sure if I should attempt a second cleaning or just move on with my life as they are unlikely to effect image quality. |
I'd suggest you leave well enough alone. |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 436
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Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:46 am Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
I think I will follow that advise. They are very minor and after cleaning the haze which was much more obvious the changes to optical performance are minor. So the specs probably do nothing to image quality. |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1301 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
Turns out to be very similar to the Kino (kiron) 28 f2. I'll put a link in my thread to this thread that will suffice. _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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Gardener
Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 950 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Gardener wrote:
cbass wrote: |
after cleaning the haze which was much more obvious the changes to optical performance are minor. |
Told you so. |
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cbass
Joined: 27 Jul 2019 Posts: 436
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:57 am Post subject: |
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cbass wrote:
Gardener wrote: |
cbass wrote: |
after cleaning the haze which was much more obvious the changes to optical performance are minor. |
Told you so. |
Yes you did. This was the only lens I had that had haze so it was bothering me. It appears there is a slight improvement in contrast, but overall I could have done nothing and corrected in post. At least it was a learning experience. |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3751 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:33 am Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
Gardener wrote: |
cbass wrote: |
after cleaning the haze which was much more obvious the changes to optical performance are minor. |
Told you so. |
I have a sample of the 2/28 or 2/24 vivitar with obvious fogging, certainly stronlgy affecting the image quality. At for this lens, the thread will be useful. Thanks to all for sharing their knowledge!
Stephan _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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lumens pixel
Joined: 27 Feb 2019 Posts: 821
Expire: 2021-06-25
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:49 am Post subject: |
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lumens pixel wrote:
Success is so rewarding. I bet you are happy. Thanks for the info. _________________ Lumens Pixel
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Minolta SR mount: 16 2,8; Sigma SuperWide 24 2,8; 28 2,5; 28 2,8; 28 3,5; 35 2,8; 45 2,0; 50 1,4; 50 1,7; 50 2,0; 58 1,4; 85 2,0; 100 2,5; 100 4 Macro; 135 3,5; 135 2,8; 200 4; RF 250 5,6; 24-35 3,5; 35-70 3,5; 75-150 4; 70-210 4
Canon FD mount: Tokina RMC 17 3,5; 28 2,8; 35 2,8; 50 1,8; 50 3,5 Macro; 55 1,2; 135 3,5; 135 2,5; 200 4,0; 300 5,6; 28-55 3,5 4,5; Tokina SZ-X SD 270; 70-150 4,5; 70-210 f4; 80-200 4L; Tokina SZ-X 845
Tamron Adaptall: 28-80 3,5-4,2 (27A); 70-210 3,8-4 (46A); 60-300 (23A); 90 2,5 (52B); 35-135 3,5-4,5 (40A)
Tamron SP: 20-40 2,7-3,5 (266D) |
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Gardener
Joined: 22 Sep 2013 Posts: 950 Location: USA
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Gardener wrote:
stevemark wrote: |
I have a sample of the 2/28 or 2/24 vivitar with obvious fogging, certainly stronlgy affecting the image quality.
Stephan |
But how do you know that it is fogging, and not sample variation, or just natural ability of the lens before post processing, or your camera? I mean there's ample evidence that haze has limited effect that can be easily corrected in post - just look at any thread discussing 28mm M-Rokkor. |
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