Home
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Budget F2.8 Zooms?
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Which zoom do you prefer on image quality?
Tokina AT-X PRO 28-70 F2.6 - F2.8 (1994)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Sigma 28-70 EX Aspherical (1998)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Tokina AT-X Pro 28-80 F2.8 (2000)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Tamron SP AF 28-75mm F2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical IF (2003) \ Minolta 28-75/2.8 D
100%
 100%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 2



PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:26 pm    Post subject: Budget F2.8 Zooms? Reply with quote

Okay technically, all of these can manually focus too!
I'm wondering if anyone has experience with them?

1: Tokina AT-X PRO 28-70 F2.6 - F2.8 (or just 'F2.8' on Japan models) - 1994 - I'm looking at the 4th variation with new HLD element, updated coatings and crinkled finish. If you don't know, this lens is developed from the Angenieux 28-70mm f2.6 first sold in 1990. This is perhaps the oldest lens. https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Tokina-28-70mm-F2.6-2.8-AT-X-270-PRO-AF_lens182.html

2: Sigma 28-70 EX Aspherical from 1998. https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Sigma-28-70mm-F2.8-EX-Aspherical_lens346.html

3: Tokina AT-X Pro 28-80 F2.8 - this is like the lens above but updated in 2000 with 2 aspherical elements, slightly larger and with closer MFD. Frankly, I haven't been able to see any improvement over the older version above, but perhaps someone here owned one. https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Tokina-28-80mm-F2.8-AT-X-280-AF-PRO--_lens167.html

4: Tamron SP AF 28-75mm F2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical IF (Made in Japan) / Minolta 28-75 F2.8 D (Made in China/Malaysia) - This is from 2003 and therefore the newest. Reviews seem to indicate that it has the best optical performance out of the other lenses but the images look pretty plain, although sharp. The Minolta is a bit cheaper than the Tamron, perhaps due to build quality difference and the inclusion of a 28mm zoom lock on the Tamron. https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Tamron-SP-AF-28-75mm-F2.8-XR-Di-LD-Aspherical-IF_lens114.html

The two Tokina lenses are said to have a lot of spherical aberration wide open with poor corners until F5.6, and very deteriorated performance above 60mm for both lenses. But, it does have the best and most durable build quality, and can run between cheaper and the same price as the others.
The Sigma seems to be middle-of-the-road in all regards, but contemporary reviews say it's really no better than the Tokina despite being newer, and with aspherical lenses (which you can definitely see in the bokeh).

These are very common so I assume there are some members here that have used one or two of the above. Having said that, on the Pentax forum, there are some really sharp sample images from the two Tokinas, not really indicating the glow wide open and as it's the cheapest lens with the best build quality, I'm leaning towards it. Stopped down, all of these lenses appear to be much the same.
I plan to shoot these on full frame film.

The other option that kind of sounds better in my mind - the more I think about it - is just to grab a 28mm F1.8 and 50mm F1.4 or 1.7 for a bit more. There's also a variety of 20-40 and 17-35 zooms that have extremely good performance and aren't too expensive.
I have a Minolta 24-50 F4 and every review implies it's a dog with regards to corner performance at all apertures, which is fine because I paid $10 for it. My only other lens is a 180/2.8 with 2x teleconverter, so I'm just looking for something to cover general usage.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are Sony MILC user, the Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 DiIII RXD(Model A036) will be one of the best choices. The lens focus fast on my R2 and even faster on my A6400. It is sharp enough at F2.8 and works well with the animal eye tracking feature of my A6400.

Here is an example in full rez taking at F2.8 with my A6400, click to enlarge:


PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some shots with the Tamron SP AF 28-75mm F2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical IF on the Nex-5 and Nex-6 with LA-EA2 Adaptor.
Great lens imho.

#1


#2
[img]http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201911
/7389_ana_1.jpg[/img]


#4


#5


#6



#7


PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the best lens is the Tokina ... i did LOTS of resorch when i buy mine ..mine is the later proii
At F2.8 ..it is a little sharper than the canon 28-70F2.8L in the center but the canon is better at the edge...my only complaint is the relatively long MFD and possibly some field curvature... the builds quilty is probably as good or better than the Canon 17-35 F2.8L i have which is a simula age ...AF is not as fast as the canon but i have not missed shots because of it
The 28-70 F2.6-2,8 is the best of the Tokina standard F2.8 zooms ..the only difference i believe between the PRO and the PROii is faster AF and maybe a bayonet hood for the proii ...the Tokina lenses are a bargain ..i pay £80 GBP but i often see them for less than £150..1/3 the price of the canon 28-70F2.8L (that was optically better than the EF 24-70F2.8L that replaced it )
here are the tests from photozone for the Tokina which on APS-c is pritty evan across the frame evan at 70mm F2.8 ...i did not find any problems wide open on my 5D...all the other tokinas are a bit soft wide open
https://www.opticallimits.com/canon-eos/276-tokina-af-28-70mm-f28-26-at-x-pro-ii-lab-test-report--review?start=1


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Budget F2.8 Zooms? Reply with quote

Teemō wrote:
1: Tokina AT-X PRO 28-70 F2.6 - F2.8 (or just 'F2.8' on Japan models) - 1994 - I'm looking at the 4th variation with new HLD element, updated coatings and crinkled finish. If you don't know, this lens is developed from the Angenieux 28-70mm f2.6 first sold in 1990. This is perhaps the oldest lens. https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Tokina-28-70mm-F2.6-2.8-AT-X-270-PRO-AF_lens182.html


I have used this about 10 years as my main lens, big, heavy, good image quality. Slow af, noisy and not really macro.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Budget F2.8 Zooms? Reply with quote

Actually I've ordered a Minolta A7 film camera which was the last model, so autofocus should okay but I hope these lenses don't have any issues with accuracy, since the camera has no way to micro-adjust the focus. It seems any focus adjustments were done by service centre's on the lens. I figure this is still the case, and that digital cameras are actually storing the focus adjustments in-camera.

I see every shot from the Tamron is excellent wide open! Shot #7 is particularly stunning! Do you have any comments about corner performance on Full Frame (or APS-C if that's all you have)? I am not worried so much about very high sharpness, but so long as it's consistent and decent across the frame, without smeared edges. If I remember right the Tamron is as good as the Canon L lens at the time.
My dilemma is that I did not bid on a boxed Tamron because I thought the price had already gone too high for such a cheaply made lens, not withstanding its good performance. Then, every Tamron that was listed after that sold for a gradually higher price until the last was 35% more than the boxed one! So now there is just one lens left in dubious condition with the rubber grips falling off/stretched. I found replacements for just $10, though.

davev8app wrote:
the best lens is the Tokina ... i did LOTS of resorch when i buy mine ..mine is the later proii
At F2.8 ..it is a little sharper than the canon 28-70F2.8L in the center but the canon is better at the edge...my only complaint is the relatively long MFD and possibly some field curvature... the builds quilty is probably as good or better than the Canon 17-35 F2.8L i have which is a simula age ...AF is not as fast as the canon but i have not missed shots because of it
The 28-70 F2.6-2,8 is the best of the Tokina standard F2.8 zooms ..the only difference i believe between the PRO and the PROii is faster AF and maybe a bayonet hood for the proii ...the Tokina lenses are a bargain ..i pay £80 GBP but i often see them for less than £150..1/3 the price of the canon 28-70F2.8L (that was optically better than the EF 24-70F2.8L that replaced it )
here are the tests from photozone for the Tokina which on APS-c is pritty evan across the frame evan at 70mm F2.8 ...i did not find any problems wide open on my 5D...all the other tokinas are a bit soft wide open
https://www.opticallimits.com/canon-eos/276-tokina-af-28-70mm-f28-26-at-x-pro-ii-lab-test-report--review?start=1


Thanks for sharing. I have done some more reading and I guess the 28-80 would be a better choice at the same price, but unfortunately it is 41% more expensive so I don't think it's worth it. I did find learn from the original press documents that while it has 2 aspherical elements, only one of them is moulded glass and the other is a hybrid aspherical aka. a spherical lens with a polymer asphere glued on top. That could explain why it does not have significant performance improvement over the Pro II, which is a bit smaller too. The MFD is not much different, 70cm vs 50cm but the 180/2.8 is a macro lens down to 1:2 so I'm not too bothered there. This Tokina lens has a rave following among Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera users, as they attribute desirable characteristics to Angenieux (I have to use spellcheck on the name every time haha!).
On OpticalLimits there is also a test for the Tamron which shows that even on APS-C it is better at every focal length and aperture except at 28mm F2.8. I found some Russian tests that roughly corroborated the same point, such that the Tamron was the only lens they recommended among standard F2.8 zooms. The main complaint I see on the Tamron is the vignetting at 28mm. Others have described the build is creaky with the zoom ring becoming loose over time and a stiff and uninspiring manual focus. Hmmm.

The Tokina is parfocal, I don't know about the others. After checking Flickr, I think if not for Photoshop, I would definitely pass on the Tokina. Not all of the character can be hidden in post. It's not offensive by any means but it is unique. Stopped down to F8 the lens looks as sharp as any prime.

kansalliskala wrote:


I have used this about 10 years as my main lens, big, heavy, good image quality. Slow af, noisy and not really macro.


Very good to know! I think the AF should not be slower than competitors, as the manual focus rotation seems to be shorter and the MF/AF clutch allows the autofocus to disengage some of the weight. What I like most about it is that all the focusing and zooming is done internally, and it ends up being shorter than the other lenses when at 70mm.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Budget F2.8 Zooms? Reply with quote

Teemō wrote:

1: Tokina AT-X PRO 28-70 F2.6 - F2.8 (or just 'F2.8' on Japan models) - 1994 - I'm looking at the 4th variation with new HLD element, updated coatings and crinkled finish. If you don't know, this lens is developed from the Angenieux 28-70mm f2.6 first sold in 1990. This is perhaps the oldest lens. https://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Tokina-28-70mm-F2.6-2.8-AT-X-270-PRO-AF_lens182.html

.

I have one I purchased for 294UKP in 2013. I tested a lot of 28mm lenses anf in the end this and a Zuiko OM 28mm F2 and this came out broadly equal, one had greens on high contrast in the slightly out of focus corners the other purples.
This lived on my 5DII. It also was used with a MCII on sony a7.

Currently, not on a camera: Manual focus will click in anywhere, but only goes back to AF at the point you went into manual on the focus ring, note on MF there is a noise from the cogs whirring. Possibly should be avoided for videographers.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Budget F2.8 Zooms? Reply with quote

Slalom wrote:


I have one I purchased for 294UKP in 2013. I tested a lot of 28mm lenses anf in the end this and a Zuiko OM 28mm F2 and this came out broadly equal, one had greens on high contrast in the slightly out of focus corners the other purples.
This lived on my 5DII. It also was used with a MCII on sony a7.

Currently, not on a camera: Manual focus will click in anywhere, but only goes back to AF at the point you went into manual on the focus ring, note on MF there is a noise from the cogs whirring. Possibly should be avoided for videographers.


Do you think it is necessary to have the original hood to keep contrast? The lens is a bit harder to find with the hood.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Teemō

Here some shots with the Tamron at 28mm on my Sony A7II with the LA-EA4 Adaptor.
Pics only are resized from 6000 to 1599 width.

#1


#2


#3


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolfhansen wrote:
@ Teemō

Here some shots with the Tamron at 28mm on my Sony A7II with the LA-EA4 Adaptor.
Pics only are resized from 6000 to 1599 width.



Nice, I take it these are all at F2.8? It seems this lens deals with comatic flare rather well. There's sure a lot of distortion in the first shot but no worry, that's easy to adjust.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a Tokina 28-80 on the Eos 1Ds back in the day (2005) tested it back to back with the Tammy - the Tamron won hands down. However, the build on the AT-X lens was phenomenal, so I might have more confidence buying it on the used market.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teemō wrote:


Nice, I take it these are all at F2.8? It seems this lens deals with comatic flare rather well. There's sure a lot of distortion in the first shot but no worry, that's easy to adjust.


Yes, all pics unedited and at 2.8


PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: Budget F2.8 Zooms? Reply with quote

Teemō wrote:


Do you think it is necessary to have the original hood to keep contrast? The lens is a bit harder to find with the hood.


The original hood is only about an inch deep top and bottom, So the sun would have to be almost overhead to benefit. It is not a telephoto, the hood is wideangle.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your poll should include "other" or "none of the above." You show a rather narrow list of possibilities.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barryreid wrote:
Had a Tokina 28-80 on the Eos 1Ds back in the day (2005) tested it back to back with the Tammy - the Tamron won hands down. However, the build on the AT-X lens was phenomenal, so I might have more confidence buying it on the used market.


I believe the Tamron uses much more complex glass too. I haven't read of any issues with the Tokina reliability, nor the Tamron but just some comments about the looser tolerances.

Slalom wrote:
Teemō wrote:


Do you think it is necessary to have the original hood to keep contrast? The lens is a bit harder to find with the hood.


The original hood is only about an inch deep top and bottom, So the sun would have to be almost overhead to benefit. It is not a telephoto, the hood is wideangle.


Makes sense, cheers!

wolfhansen wrote:


Yes, all pics unedited and at 2.8


Great results then. Like 1 small

cooltouch wrote:
Your poll should include "other" or "none of the above." You show a rather narrow list of possibilities.


Yes, I was thinking of the poll more for readers who might have owned it but not wish to add anything in a comment, since threads can get a lot of views.
As far as I know these are the only lenses available in Alpha mount along these focal lengths. I did bid against a newer Sigma EX DG Macro 24-70/2.8 but alas, it became too much. The winner still got a bargain for LNIB on that - I was surprised to be the only other bidder on it compared to the start. Did you have others lenses in mind?


PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some Images from the tokina on Flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/140694868@N05/43769421731/in/album-72157693879769480/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/140694868@N05/43769441741/in/album-72157693879769480/

Sun just off frame.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/140694868@N05/43053329204/in/album-72157693879769480/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/140694868@N05/43721357062/in/album-72157693879769480/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/140694868@N05/43721360412/in/album-72157693879769480/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/140694868@N05/29899021768/in/album-72157693879769480/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/140694868@N05/43769432601/in/album-72157693879769480/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/140694868@N05/43721354612/in/album-72157693879769480/

The lens was on an MC11 and the exif is not perfect,

If you wonder round the rest of the album the 50 f1.4 Is in fact MC11, an OM EF AF confrm adapter and An OM Shift 28mm. MC11 mean one chunk adapter for this hike.

From the shift:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/140694868@N05/43053358194/in/album-72157693879769480/