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Helios 44 for Start SLR
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:06 pm    Post subject: Helios 44 for Start SLR Reply with quote
I got my Helios 44 for the Start SLR system today. It's a really beautiful and well built lens. I'm wondering if I can mount this on my EOS 7D? If that is not possible can I use the lens elemnts from the start Helios with my old M39 thread Helios 44? This start Helios is multicoated and a 00, I read here that's supposed to be the better ones.






PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Afaik you cannot mount a Start Helios on anything but a Start body you can mount m39 lenses on a Start body with an adapter but thats all Crying or Very sad as far as making another lens out of the 2, its possible perhaps; but the only way to know is to try it I have never heard of it being done

Last edited by Poolhall on Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Poolhall wrote:
Afaik you cannot mount a Start Helios on anything but a Start body you can mount m39 lenses on a Start body with an adapter but thats all Crying or Very sad


Allright, it only set me back 19$ but it would be nice to be able to use it. It fits inside of a M42 adapter and I managed to take a picture but focus is really limited, around 2 meters only. Do you think it's possible to use the glass on my other Helios 44?


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As far as making another lens out of the 2, its possible perhaps; but the only way to know is to try it I have never heard of it being done. I did make an m39 Helios out of an m39 mount and an m42 end so its perhaps possible Shocked


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote





Here is a picture with me holding the lens ontop of the M42 adapter. This lens is sharp! I'll try to swap elements with my M39 Helios and see what happens!


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Please let us know if you succeed Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Poolhall wrote:
Please let us know if you succeed Very Happy



The front and middle elements fit perfectly in my M39 Helios but the rear element is too big. So, now I have a multicoated(?) M39 Helios 44. Sharpness towards the edges is not that good but I'll do more testing outside when it stops raining.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excellent at least it looks to be usable Very Happy Problem may be due to difference in registration distance perhaps between the Start Helios and the m39 version, if all else fails you could maybe buy a Start body for the lens Very Happy Sometimes you can pick up a silver m39 Helios for a reasonable price too mine is also a '00' and was not expensive, I think about £15, it may be worth keeping a look out for one Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very cool info about the glass switch-over. Actually when you mentioned the lens when it was still an active auction, I was thinking the same thing. I've always wanted a Start camera but the limited selection of lenses (helios 44 start mount, and m39 zenit lenses with the adapter) always held me back.

~Marc


PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The elements from the Start lens were heavier than the original M39 Helios and had darker borders. Stoped down to f4 it's really really sharp. Here are some pictures with the "new" lens. My cats Vincent, Zena and Tindra posed for me. All pictures wide open. I'm glad I got this old start!




:


PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The register distance of Start bayonet is 42mm. So you have to remove the protruding part of its bayonet to use it on Canon if you say its diameter is less than the Canon bayonet. And you probably need to shave few mm to use it with some adapter.

It is not multicoated lens of course but its coating is different. All very early soviet lenses seem to have this kind of coating - blue-violet.

It is very strange and interesting what you say about its rear element diameter. I thought all the Helios 44 lenses have the same optical construction.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excellent results Very Happy Many congratulations Very Happy


PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It seems I can't focus beyond 5-6 meters and it's probably due to the different baynet sizes like dimitrygo is saying. I'm happy with 5-6 meters as I will only be using this lens for portraits. Another thing is that the swirly bokeh is gone or at least almost invisible. The bokeh is now calm and creamy. Sharpness is really great wide open.

I have some samples from today when I was helping my dad renovating his restaurant.

So, are the elements from this old start better than a newer Helios 44-2? Would the start elements come to better use in the Helios 44-2 instead of this old M39 Helios?


All pics wide open. Sharpening in ps, they were sharp straight from the cam but it never hurts to sharpen a little! I know they are not the greatest samples but I think they show what the lens can do.






PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting bokeh on the 2nd cat pic.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Helios 44 for Start SLR Reply with quote
electricl wrote:
I got my Helios 44 for the Start SLR system today.


Can you please describe how its aperture mechanism works? I mean it has only one aperture ring so I wonder how does it work.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I believe it is very similar to the Exakta the plunger on the side of the lens fires the shutter and closes the automatic aperture mechanism as well - try here
http://www.btinternet.com/~stowupland/start/index.html


PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Helios 44 for Start SLR Reply with quote
dimitrygo wrote:
electricl wrote:
I got my Helios 44 for the Start SLR system today.


Can you please describe how its aperture mechanism works? I mean it has only one aperture ring so I wonder how does it work.




You turn the aperture ring to the desired aperture and then you use the button on the side of the lens to trigger the shutter button and at the same time stop down. You can also turn the button to stop down the aperture.

It's a really well built lens and I'm a little sad I couldn't use it on my EOS 7D as it is but had to take out the elements and transplant them in a M39 Helioss 44.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Helios 44 for Start SLR Reply with quote
Thank you both. I guess it means this lens cannot be converted to be used on Canon without loosing this A/M switch.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Electricl: i congrats to your adaptation, but it doesn't seem cool to me to convert lens that is made for START and is somehow rare, where you can easily get older M42 alu HELIOS 44 and use it as it is. Correct me if i am wrong but i guess optical design is pretty much the same.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
Electricl: i congrats to your adaptation, but it doesn't seem cool to me to convert lens that is made for START and is somehow rare, where you can easily get older M42 alu HELIOS 44 and use it as it is. Correct me if i am wrong but i guess optical design is pretty much the same.



I didn't know it was rare but you are right, I felt a little sad after I switched the elements bcause the Start Helios is a really well built and beautiful lens.
I can easily switch them back if I wanted to.

The results I get from this Helios 44 with start elements is very similar to the 44-2 I have but with no swirly bokeh!


PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
electricl wrote:

The results I get from this Helios 44 with start elements is very similar to the 44-2 I have but with no swirly bokeh!

Can you please post a picture of some scene taken with 44-2 that shows its swirly bokeh and then the same picture taken with the Start lens?


PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dimitrygo wrote:
electricl wrote:

The results I get from this Helios 44 with start elements is very similar to the 44-2 I have but with no swirly bokeh!

Can you please post a picture of some scene taken with 44-2 that shows its swirly bokeh and then the same picture taken with the Start lens?



Ill go out and take some pictures with the Helios 44-2 when it stops raining. I have some samples of the Helios m39 with start elements and they show no swirly bokeh. Is there any special situation when the bokeh becomes especially swirly with the regular Helios lenses?


PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
electricl wrote:

Ill go out and take some pictures with the Helios 44-2 when it stops raining. I have some samples of the Helios m39 with start elements and they show no swirly bokeh. Is there any special situation when the bokeh becomes especially swirly with the regular Helios lenses?


To make a real and reliable comparison you need to shoot the same scene with both lenses.
Regarding conditions for swirly bokeh, look at these photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/noircorner/3903668845/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nerdlogger/4061875943/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/blackraindrop/3845337184/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bw94/3281736201/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/accidentalphotography/2949463600/
And especially here
http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/AfterTheSwirlies/Swirlies.html
And a group on the Flickr called swirly bokeh Smile
http://www.flickr.com/groups/swirlybokeh/


PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dimitrygo wrote:
electricl wrote:

Ill go out and take some pictures with the Helios 44-2 when it stops raining. I have some samples of the Helios m39 with start elements and they show no swirly bokeh. Is there any special situation when the bokeh becomes especially swirly with the regular Helios lenses?


To make a real and reliable comparison you need to shoot the same scene with both lenses.
Regarding conditions for swirly bokeh, look at these photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/noircorner/3903668845/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nerdlogger/4061875943/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/blackraindrop/3845337184/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bw94/3281736201/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/accidentalphotography/2949463600/
And especially here
http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/AfterTheSwirlies/Swirlies.html
And a group on the Flickr called swirly bokeh Smile
http://www.flickr.com/groups/swirlybokeh/









Here are two pictures taken with the Helios 44-2 that shows swirly bokeh.



PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
electricl wrote:

Here are two pictures taken with the Helios 44-2 that shows swirly bokeh.


You don't need to prove the Helios 44-2 has swirly bokeh - this is a known fact Smile
You do need to prove the Helios 44 Start doesn't have it Smile
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