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request: test/info. Summicron-R 50 vs Zenitar 50 1.7
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject: request: test/info. Summicron-R 50 vs Zenitar 50 1.7 Reply with quote
Hello All,

Although I have couple of 50s and find time useful at different things, smmicron-R has been in my mind. I have seen references made to Zenitar being copy of summicron. How similar or dissimilar are these in use? I would appreciate any direct real use tests comparing them or against other 50s.

There is also the question of v1 vs v2.

Thanks,
-Michael.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i have both lenses - tuesday i'm back at home and can take some test shots


PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Summicron R 50/2 is a 6/4 design. The Zenitar-m is a 6/5 design. The Zenitar-m is supposed to be a copy of the Carl Zeiss Ultron (Hence it is called the poor man's Ultron).


PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
The Summicron R 50/2 is a 6/4 design. The Zenitar-m is a 6/5 design. The Zenitar-m is supposed to be a copy of the Carl Zeiss Ultron (Hence it is called the poor man's Ultron).

The Carl Zeiss Ultron 50mm f1.8 is a 7 elements design .
6/4 and 6/5 are such common designs that it may be difficult to find out who copied whom. 6/4 designs are inspired by the original Planar.
Regarding the comparison , I have the Zenitar which is a very nice lens. It is not very contrasty and I suppose that this will be the first big difference to the Summicron.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
The Carl Zeiss Ultron 50mm f1.8 is a 7 elements design .


The original Ultron design was indeed 6/5 designed by A.W. Tronnier for Voigtländer apprx. 1950. The Zenitar is a Ultron and some other lenses as well (e.g. the Minolta 50/1.7, Pentax 50/1.7, etc.).

The "Carl Zeiss" Ultron you are referring to was also designed by Tronnier in the late 1960's and built by Voigtländer as well and is an enhanced Ultron design with an additional front element. The only connex to Carl Zeiss is that Voigtländer at this time already was part of the Zeiss trust and for whatever reason Zeiss decided to use their brand name on Voigtländer products. The later Rollei Planar/Voigtländer Ultron 50/1.8 are slightly modified copies of this enhanced Ultron (designed by Glatzel/Zeiss).


PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello All, Thanks a lot for providing information from their design, this is extremely useful. I will do further reading along these lines.
Hi Wolfgang, Thank you in advance for your test/sample pictures effort.
-Michael.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In the "Library" section of this forum you can find the book "Leica R Lenses" by Erwin Puts, the most reliable author on Leica gear ( http://forum.mflenses.com/leica-r-lenses-by-erwin-puts-t77840.html ).
You'll find there all the information you need about Summicron-R lenses.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
dan_ wrote:
In the "Library" section of this forum you can find the book "Leica R Lenses" by Erwin Puts, the most reliable author on Leica gear ( http://forum.mflenses.com/leica-r-lenses-by-erwin-puts-t77840.html ).
You'll find there all the information you need about Summicron-R lenses.


Very good read, thanks a lot for sharing! It is loaded with a lot of useful info.
Thanks,


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry for the delay, but shxxty weather here. So here some sample pics of the 1.7/50mm Zenitar and the Leitz Summicron-R 2.0/50mm.
Both Lenses wide open at the Sony A7II handheld, Auto-ISO, A-Modus, JPG

#1


Zenitar



Summicron

#2


Zenitar



Summicron

#3


Zenitar



Summicron

#4


Zenitar



Summicron

#5


Zenitar



Summicron

#6


Zenitar



Summicron

#7


Zenitar



Summicron


PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello Wolfgang,

I love real world comparisons like this, much prefer this over brick wall tests. Thanks a lot for the effort! Summicron seems to be more saturated. What is your general feeling about the 2 lenses in terms of image quality?

FYI: I will do a similar test between the zeintar, planar, pancolar & summicron as soon as I receive my sample (soon).

Thanks,
-Michael.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Without extreme pixel peeping the lenses seem to perform very similar.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Without extreme pixel peeping the lenses seem to perform very similar.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello Michael,

i like both lenses. The Summicron is in my Top10 List because of the haptics and overall performance.
My top lens in the 50mm range (and i have 51 lenses in the 50-58mm range) is still the Tronnier Zeiss Ultron 1.8/50mm (M42).
Incredible piece of glass Smile
Here some examples on the Sony A7II:
http://forum.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-ultron-1-8-50mm-m42-shoots-a-carrera-911-t80449,highlight,%2Bultron.html


PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Summicron, more contrasty. Zenitar better Bokeh.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Personally, I don't see too much of a bokeh difference between the two lenses.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wolfhansen wrote:

i like both lenses. The Summicron is in my Top10 List because of the haptics and overall performance.
My top lens in the 50mm range (and i have 51 lenses in the 50-58mm range) is still the Tronnier Zeiss Ultron 1.8/50mm (M42).
Incredible piece of glass Smile


I like the Zenitar as well. The only shortcoming is the rather strong tendency for CA's (purple fringing) when used wide open. The Summicron does far better in that respect.
How does the "Zeiss" Ultron perform in this discipline? Do you have typical example pictures from this lens to check it's CA performance?
Would be really great if you would show any comparison between the Zenitar and the Zeiss Ultron in a typical purple fringing scenery as well.

Thanks,


PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello Thomas, especially for you i leave my couch to shot some
pics with the Zeiss (Voigtländer) Ultron Smile
Here are quick and dirty:

#1


#2


#3


PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
wolfhansen wrote:
Hello Thomas, especially for you i leave my couch to shot some
pics with the Zeiss (Voigtländer) Ultron Smile


Many thanks, Wolfgang! Indeed amazing, no really visible CA's. By far better than the Zenitar and even the Summicron.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Wolfgang, All,

Thanks a lot for sharing your insight and additional samples/test images.
From your test, Zeiss (Voigtländer) Ultron seem to better the Zenitar in terms of CA & may be other aspects too. The Colors and overall Pictures production seem very similar (baring the differences).

Thanks,
-Michael.
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