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Can you date this leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5 (Sample pics too)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:18 pm    Post subject: Can you date this leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5 (Sample pics too) Reply with quote

Hi all

Can you help date a leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5

My late father had a Leica Film Camera and some Leica Lenses.

The leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5 was the worlds first interchangeable lens.

This screw mount lens dates it between 1930 and 1959. There's no serial number on my copy which means I cannot date it accurately , other than saying it is over 60 years old. It has markings in feet rather than metres .

Anyway, I attached it to my Sony A6000 and took some images, It was a bit risk as it is a collapsible lens , which means if I push the barrel down it would hit my sensor and efectively destroy my camera. So all the time I had it on my camera I was saying "don't push it in Phil " Anyway I didn't and the results are pretty good for such an old lens.


The focus ring was really stiff too, but I read that lighter fuel will loosen the grease in the helicoid. The lighter fuel did the trick, although part way round my little photo walk around Arnold it stiffened up again !

leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5 by Phil Howcroft, on Flickr


Saint Marys Lamp : leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5 vintage lens by Phil Howcroft, on Flickr


Ruby : leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5 vintage lens by Phil Howcroft, on Flickr

Contre Jour Roses : leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5 vintage lens by Phil Howcroft, on Flickr


Many thanks in anticipation of your help

The lens took some great pics albeit I was a little scared if using the lens on my Sony A6000


PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:51 am    Post subject: Re: Can you date this leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5 (Sample pics t Reply with quote

bwfcnottingham wrote:
Hi all

Can you help date a leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5

My late father had a Leica Film Camera and some Leica Lenses.

The leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5 was the worlds first interchangeable lens.

This screw mount lens dates it between 1930 and 1959. There's no serial number on my copy which means I cannot date it accurately , other than saying it is over 60 years old. It has markings in feet rather than metres .

Feet suggests it was an export model for sale in USA or Canada.

I tried to fing something on lenses with no serial, so far I only found this
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238991-elmar-35-cm-no-serial-number-chrome-plated-brass/
"my research mentioned some Elmars were released without serIal numbers when they were sold as part of an enlarger package. "

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/differences-between-ltm-5cm-elmar-versions.220753/
"not having a serial # suggests early 30s, or earlier still." "The f-stops went to 16, post-war, then to 22". so this suggests a later lens.
The serial might be here:

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/elmar-5cm-serail-number-location.104223/
"The elmars that dont have SN are usually coming from Leicas A that where sent to factory for upgrade to Leica II or such, that included a screw bayonet for other lenses, so the Elmars were taken of the body and mounted on nickels barrels (usually). Lenses in cameras sent in after WW2 used to be mounted on Chrome contemporary barrels.
There is no SN since the Serial Number was on the camera itself."

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103774
"Leica used mm from 1925 to 1928, cm from 1928 to 1970 and reverted back to mm from 1971 onwards."

Quote:

Anyway, I attached it to my Sony A6000 and took some images, It was a bit risk as it is a collapsible lens , which means if I push the barrel down it would hit my sensor and efectively destroy my camera. So all the time I had it on my camera I was saying "don't push it in Phil " Anyway I didn't and the results are pretty good for such an old lens.
It won't touch the sensor on your A6000, but it will touch the plastic surrounding the sensor, and will likely leave a mark on the plastic.
You can add a couple thick O-Rings to the barrel of the lens to stop it from being pushed in too far.
Hair elastics also work
Quote:

The focus ring was really stiff too, but I read that lighter fuel will loosen the grease in the helicoid. The lighter fuel did the trick, although part way round my little photo walk around Arnold it stiffened up again !

You need to clean out the old grease and add new grease to get it to focus smoothly, the lighter fluid will soften up the grease till it evaporates.
It's literally one of the easiest lenses to re-grease.
I'd use this grease https://www.ebay.com/itm/HELIMAX-XP-Camera-Telescope-Optical-Instrument-Focusing-Helicoid-Grease-w-PTFE/271194713421
Quote:

Many thanks in anticipation of your help

The lens took some great pics albeit I was a little scared if using the lens on my Sony A6000

No need to worry, just add something as I said above to prevent it from fully collapsing and there will not be anything to worry about.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Main_Page#Screw-thread_Lenses_.26_Camera_Accessories

I could not read the SN on the lens in your picture. That is key to the year of production. I suspect yours is coated, has F22- you should be able to find it in one of the above links for Elmar 5cm F3.5.

Not easy to navigate- and the wiki did not let me post the direct link." target="_blank">Click here to see on Ebay.de


PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Can you date this leitz elmar f=5cm 1:3.5 (Sample pics t Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:


I tried to fing something on lenses with no serial, so far I only found this
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238991-elmar-35-cm-no-serial-number-chrome-plated-brass/
"my research mentioned some Elmars were released without serIal numbers when they were sold as part of an enlarger package. "

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/differences-between-ltm-5cm-elmar-versions.220753/
"not having a serial # suggests early 30s, or earlier still." "The f-stops went to 16, post-war, then to 22". so this suggests a later lens.
The serial might be here:

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/elmar-5cm-serail-number-location.104223/
"The elmars that dont have SN are usually coming from Leicas A that where sent to factory for upgrade to Leica II or such, that included a screw bayonet for other lenses, so the Elmars were taken of the body and mounted on nickels barrels (usually). Lenses in cameras sent in after WW2 used to be mounted on Chrome contemporary barrels.
There is no SN since the Serial Number was on the camera itself."

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103774
"Leica used mm from 1925 to 1928, cm from 1928 to 1970 and reverted back to mm from 1971 onwards."


Lightshow , many thanks for your excellent reply and very informative information

Interesting what you say about the SN being on the camera rather than the lens

The leica camera it was attached to has a serial number which indicates it is a Leica Ic from 1951, but those cameras were used for scientific photography and had two accessory shoes on top of the camera , whereas my Dad's camera had only 1. I read somewhere that some scientific cameras were modified to become consumer cameras. i will post a pic tomorrow of the camera.

Great Idea about the bangles, hair rings. I might try that

If the theory about the SN being on the camera and the camera it is the original camera then it is 1951.

Thanks again for all the information , I really appreciate it

Like 1


PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiftyonepointsix wrote:
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Main_Page#Screw-thread_Lenses_.26_Camera_Accessories

I could not read the SN on the lens in your picture. That is key to the year of production. I suspect yours is coated, has F22- you should be able to find it in one of the above links for Elmar 5cm F3.5.

Not easy to navigate- and the wiki did not let me post the direct link." target="_blank">Click here to see on Ebay.de


Thank you fifty one , there is no serial number anywhere on the little lens.

thanks for the link , it is a very helpful resource

lightshow in the reply above, suggests the SN may have been on the camera it was sold with


Like 1


PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I zoom in on your picture of the lens on Flickr, it sure looks like there's a number engraved in the black painted rim.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the lens' elements coated? If so, that will give you an approximate demarcation date -- what, early 50s?

Great thing about the 5cm Elmar -- it proves the old adage: Sometimes you get it right the first time. I don't care how many years have gone under the bridge since this first 35mm format 50mm -- it's still one of the very best.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Shriver wrote:
When I zoom in on your picture of the lens on Flickr, it sure looks like there's a number engraved in the black painted rim.


+1. I see what appears to be six digits in the right place. I'm looking on my crappy Thinkpad screen, so can't make out the numbers. But.…

Adoption of 'standard' aperture numbering - 1946.

End of six digit serial numbers - 1951.

It also appears to have a black dof scale, so before Sn. 905,000 (apparently - correct me if this is wrong).


PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciolist wrote:
John Shriver wrote:
When I zoom in on your picture of the lens on Flickr, it sure looks like there's a number engraved in the black painted rim.


+1. I see what appears to be six digits in the right place. I'm looking on my crappy Thinkpad screen, so can't make out the numbers. But.…

Adoption of 'standard' aperture numbering - 1946.

End of six digit serial numbers - 1951.

It also appears to have a black dof scale, so before Sn. 905,000 (apparently - correct me if this is wrong).


John / Sciolist, sorry for the delay in replying , I never saw your posts as I didn't get any notificatons (or if I did I missed them). There no serial numbers on the lens anywhere, higher up the thread it was implied that in some cases, if the lens does not have a serial number then the year of manufacture is the same as the serial number on the camera, which in this case implies 1951, as the camera serial number tells me it is a Leica Ic

Thanks for your input


PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Are the lens' elements coated? If so, that will give you an approximate demarcation date -- what, early 50s?

Great thing about the 5cm Elmar -- it proves the old adage: Sometimes you get it right the first time. I don't care how many years have gone under the bridge since this first 35mm format 50mm -- it's still one of the very best.


thanks cooltouch , I am concluding the lens is from 1951 i.e. the same year as the camera.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bwfcnottingham wrote:
... There no serial numbers on the lens anywhere,


Weird. I can see the serial number in the place where it should be.

Could you humour me Phil and look on the black ring, at a position above the 'a' in Elmar? Do you have a jewellers loupe? That would help.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciolist wrote:
bwfcnottingham wrote:
... There no serial numbers on the lens anywhere,


Weird. I can see the serial number in the place where it should be.

Could you humour me Phil and look on the black ring, at a position above the 'a' in Elmar? Do you have a jewellers loupe? That would help.


Wow. I got a magnifying glass .

The serial number is not visible with the naked eye . If I get a magnifying glass out I can make out .... 988007 .

It is so tiny , the precision engraving required to do that must have been very impressive.

Good shout .

Serial number reference equates to an Elmar 5 cm 1:35 (Black scale ) from 1952, 2,850 were manufactured

Many thanks

Phil


PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good stuff Like 1 . I wouldn't try and make it clearer. That aperture control ring has a lovely patina.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciolist wrote:
Good stuff Like 1 . I wouldn't try and make it clearer. That aperture control ring has a lovely patina.


The lens is beautiful and in mint condition. Having revisited the pics I took , I am really impressed with the quality . For a lens rapidly approaching 70 years old it holds its own with its modern day nifty fifties

Have a nice evening


PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bwfcnottingham wrote:
Sciolist wrote:
Good stuff Like 1 . I wouldn't try and make it clearer. That aperture control ring has a lovely patina.


The lens is beautiful and in mint condition. Having revisited the pics I took , I am really impressed with the quality . For a lens rapidly approaching 70 years old it holds its own with its modern day nifty fifties

Have a nice evening

According to some people, a lens that old can't possibly compete with a new lens.... Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

According to some people, a lens that old can't possibly compete with a new lens.... Rolling Eyes


Lightshow...


+1 , good job we don't listen to those "some people "