Soligor Miranda, Kowa Prominar 5cm f1.9 Questions

[Oldhand]

The Soligor Miranda and Kowa Prominar 5cm f1.9 lenses appear identical.
I have the Soligor Miranda 5cm f1.9 - serial Number KXXXXXXX which I believe is a re-badged Kowa Prominar.
Does anyone know the lens construction of these lenses.
For what it's worth, it appears from the reflections that the lens has six elements.
I am interested to know if it is another Biotar type.
It certainly can show similar swirl in its bokeh

Here are some images of the lens, followed by samples taken with it
Tom


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[Alun Thomas]

I can't really answer your specific questions, although I do have 2 copies of the lens. The first I bought because of a general curiosity with Kowa lenses, the second I got for $5 and couldn't resist a bargain, although it does need disassembly as the aperture does not work. So perhaps I will be able to help with that when I get to that job.

First impressions of the one I did try a couple of test shots, and was pleasantly surpised by an exceptionally sharp corner to corner image at F8 focussed in the distance, which is my general rough test for my particular usage.

I also have two copies of the 135/3.5 of the same lens range, and likewise, one was to try and the second was $6, bought at the same time as the cheap 50/1.9. But needing extensive cleaning for fungus. The IQ of the lens is good but not outstanding. As per most older telephotos you can have higher edge resolution with a side helping of fringing, or slightly reduced edge resolution with none. This lens goes with the second option, and does it fairly well for this era.

And I only just received the 28/2.8 for the same range which is not seen very often, and likewise needing a clean of one interior element. No tests done yet.

[walter g]

Tom, it is 6 elements in 4 groups. MFD is 17", the objective is hard coated.
Lens is made from rare earth high refractive glass.

[papasito]

In the Butkus.org page, see the Kowa SE manual.

The lens is a kowa 1,9/50.

The same lens than the soligor miranda K 1,9/50?

IT's 6/4 lens

[Oldhand]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
I was interested to know if the lens is a Biotar type design or a double gauss and if anyone knew for sure.
Both are 6 elements in four groups.
It does swirl like a Biotar, hence my question.
Tom

[papasito]

[Alun Thomas]

I cleaned my one today. The front and rear elements remove very easily, each as an assembly. I disassembled the forward assembly, it is similar to the biotar scheme with a single element followed by a cemented doublet. Unfortunately I could not completely disassemble the rear assembly, it was too tight. The rear element is a single, I managed to remove that part, but could not remove the other two.

I gave the lens a small tryout in my back yard but did not notice much in the way of swirl, your results may vary.

edit: after looking at a biotar diagram, the Soligor Miranda 5cm/1.9 doesn't seem to be as symmetrical, I'm not sure if that is significant.

[Oldhand]

Thank you papasito and Alun.
I had in my mind that the Biotar was not a double gauss for some reason.
I will take some more images with the Miranda to see if I can re-produce the swirl.
It certainly looks like it in some of my shots
T

[pdccameras]

Check out this Soligor Prominar badged version of the Soligor/Kowa/Miranda/Prominar. Currently on auction at Shopgoodwill.com. I have nothing to do with the auction, but thought it an interesting enough anomaly to dig up this older post!

Link to auction: https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/84965936

[Alun Thomas]

Wooo $289, somebody wants that set of lenses...

I actually bought possibly an identical Soligor Prominar lens last year, it was EXA mount like the one linked. The lens is similar to the Soligor Miranda lens, but not the same. My copy has mechanical issues with a loose focussing ring, so is currently sitting in the repair queue.

Although the Soligor-Miranda (Kowa) lens with the 'K' code does appear to be made by Kowa, there are preceding practically identical 'Y' code versions in both black and silver colouring, and I have also seen a 135/3.5 from the same range with a 'TY' code. It's enough to make you wonder if the basic design of the lens was prepared by Soligor-Miranda and contracted out. If that were true, then the lens is more likely not a true Kowa design, although you never know.

I also received yesterday a $5 'K' code Soligor Miranda 5cm 1.9, but it is in the 'new' shape. Following this the 'K' code was dropped for a 'normal' serial number, some beginning in '4', some in '5', and some also saying Miranda only, not Soligor-Miranda. Then following that, as near as I can make out, the Auto Miranda range was released, before the newer 50/1.8 was released.

[pdccameras]

Interesting info Alun!

I was intrigued by the obviously "German" sounding name of the lens: Prominar - which brings to mind a bunch of trade names from Meyer Gorlitz, ie. Primotar, Primoplan, Primagon, etc. Since Exakta did not market their own lens line, there was certainly a market for aftermarket normals to use on your new VXIIa. So I am willing to bet the Soligor Primonar was targeted squarely at thee buyers.

It's interesting that you suggest that the Primonar version of the lens was not just a re-badged Miranda clone, but a separate design - at least cosmetically. While Miranda and Exakta do not share a similar back focus, nor do they share much in the way of mount similarities, they did both use external aperture actuation arms (albeit on different sides of the camera).


As an aside, the selling prices on the ShopGoodwill site are often inflated. I'd like to think its because people want to donate to a good cause, so they aren't super concerned about bargains, but more than likely it is more about "auction fever" or lack of knowledge about what they are actually bidding on. Sorry for the cynicism.

Best,

Paul

[Oldhand]

Here are a few more images from this lens.
T


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[pdccameras]

The colors are really nice - especially in rim lit leaf, and I really like the oof rendering displayed in the first two images. Well done!

P.

[SkedAddled]

Your images of the lens itself appear very similar to the many other Soligor lenses
manufactured by Tokina during the 1970's, Thomas.
This is evinced by my own Soligors dated to the 1970's by serial numbers:

400/f6.3 T2, 75-260/f4.5 M42, and 135/f2.8 T4/TX.
They all have the black barrels with bright aperture rings
and mount collars, and knurled focus barrels,
and the fonts/engravings all appear much like your lens,
including colors of markings.

Maybe this isn't much to go on, I know, but it's what I know of Soligor.

[Oldhand]

[Alun Thomas]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Kowa-Soligor-Prominar-3-5cm-35mm-f-2-8-lens-in-Exakta-mount/283775513179?hash=item421256b25b:g:NGMAAOSwWxJePhZy

I guess we know who won the auction further up thread - and another chance if anyone really would like a Soligor / Kowa Prominar lens.

[Oldhand]

[braz]

[Alun Thomas]

Fair enough. I try to avoid big lens lots, as the postage on from the US to New Zealand can be prohibitive, and the prospects of selling lenses on are lower, as postage back is even worse. I did just manage to score a Miranda D camera no one else bid on for $20 (it closed at an unusual time of day) and will shortly be able to directly compare the Soligor/Miranda 35/2.8 with the Soligor/Prominar 35/2.8. One difference I could see off the sellers photograph was the Miranda has both feet and meters on the focus scale, the Prominar only has feet. A comparison of the lens structure close up should be revealing.

[Alun Thomas]

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It finally arrived. It appears to be identical to the Soligor Prominar. Pictured are two different versions of 'K' code Soligor Miranda lenses, alongside the Soligor Prominar version in EXA mount. They all have serial numbers in a series around 7XXXXX. The front and rear optical blocks appear to be the same. They all focus down to 16".

One strange thing about the Prominar lens is that when mounted to an EXA adapter it will not focus to infinity. I disassembled the lens and despite my efforts, there was no physical way to arrange it so that it would. I compared the lens elements with the other two, looking for a flipped element or incorrect assembly, but it was okay. The lens seems to have a Miranda register distance, but a EXA mount. In the end I fitted an EXA-M42 adapter ring, and used a short M42 helicoid to set the register distance correctly.

[Oldhand]

A few images taken today with The Soligor Miranda (Kowa Prominar) 5cm f1.9
@wide aperture

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@f4

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[papasito]

Old Hand, great pics!!!!

I ask, has the prominar 50/1,9 any relation witt the Kowa 50/1,9 Lena taht camera in the kowa set or similar line?

[pdccameras]

Great images, Oldhand! I really like the pic of the bamboo!

P.

[vivaldibow]

[Oldhand]

Thanks everyone for the comments.
The lens is quite small, is very easy to hold and is a good balanced companion to the Fujifilm XE2s
Of course this tempts me into hand holding the camera, so my images may show some camera movement as I was too lazy to attach a tripod.
It is clearly very sharp from wide open in the viewfinder.