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SOLVED - Auto-Takumar 55mm f2 flange depth?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: SOLVED - Auto-Takumar 55mm f2 flange depth? Reply with quote

Hello,

any fellow forum users with an Auto-Takumar 55mm f2 lens? I'm interested in the measure depicted in the attached photo. Can anyone help me and measure the distance please? I'm talking about this lens, the first variants that were produced between 1958-1959. (The later Super/SMC Takumars were a bit different lenses, this thread is not about them)

The lens in this photo is actually a Yashinon 5cm f2 but from this angle it looks about the same as Auto-Takumar 55 f2. I measured the Yashinon, rotated the focus ring to infinity first, of course, and got ~9.00mm.

Edit: Solved! Thank you yoyomaoz for your measurement.




Last edited by meian on Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:01 am; edited 3 times in total


PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are they really the same lens or do they just look alike? Differences are focussing ring turns the other way around Pentax 55mm Yashonin 50mm Pentax stops down to F22, Yashinon to F16.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-Takumar 55mm f2 flange depth? Reply with quote

meian wrote:
...
The lens in this photo is actually a Yashinon 5cm f2 but from this angle it looks about the same as Auto-Takumar 55 f2. Both were made by Tomioka. ...


Documentation please? The Auto-Takumar was made by Asahi Optical Comoany.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-Takumar 55mm f2 flange depth? Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
meian wrote:
...
The lens in this photo is actually a Yashinon 5cm f2 but from this angle it looks about the same as Auto-Takumar 55 f2. Both were made by Tomioka. ...

Documentation please? The Auto-Takumar was made by Asahi Optical Comoany.


My apologies, I mixed it up with the Auto-Takumar 55mm f1.8 zebra which may have been made by Tomioka. I edited my original post to patch my error.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-Takumar 55mm f2 flange depth? Reply with quote

meian wrote:
visualopsins wrote:
meian wrote:
...
The lens in this photo is actually a Yashinon 5cm f2 but from this angle it looks about the same as Auto-Takumar 55 f2. Both were made by Tomioka. ...

Documentation please? The Auto-Takumar was made by Asahi Optical Comoany.


My apologies, I mixed it up with the early Auto-Takumar 55mm f1.8 lenses which may have been made by Tomioka. I edited my original post to patch my error.


No problem. Smile

The Zebra 55/1.8 (and 1.9 which was sold with Tower 29 caneras) was made by Asahi Optical Company. There is an earlier Takumar, also made by AOC.

I'd like to see any info you have about Tomioka connection. Thanks.

Wonder why that dimension is neded? For example the EOS FF mirrir clears the 55/1.8 Takumars...


PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-Takumar 55mm f2 flange depth? Reply with quote

visualopsins wrote:
meian wrote:
visualopsins wrote:
meian wrote:
...
The lens in this photo is actually a Yashinon 5cm f2 but from this angle it looks about the same as Auto-Takumar 55 f2. Both were made by Tomioka. ...

Documentation please? The Auto-Takumar was made by Asahi Optical Comoany.

My apologies, I mixed it up with the early Auto-Takumar 55mm f1.8 lenses which may have been made by Tomioka. I edited my original post to patch my error.

No problem. Smile
The Zebra 55/1.8 (and 1.9 which was sold with Tower 29 caneras) was made by Asahi Optical Company. There is an earlier Takumar, also made by AOC.


Quote:
I'd like to see any info you have about Tomioka connection. Thanks.


Sure, http://pakira3.sakura.ne.jp/wp/?p=18668

... and through Translator: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpakira3.sakura.ne.jp%2Fwp%2F%3Fp%3D18668

Quote:
Wonder why that dimension is neded? For example the EOS FF mirrir clears the 55/1.8 Takumars...


I use Canon 5D (classic) a Viltrox EF-M2 focal reducer on my µ4/3. For example the Yashinon mentioned above can't be used with either, if focusing to infinity is needed. And it is. Neutral So I just want to be extra sure before I order anything. I can of course use just about any lens with a dummy adapter on my µ4/3. About Canon FF DSLR mirror clearance: there are differences between models and 5D classic is the worst. Very Happy


PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link. I'm still not convinced. Perhaps a comparison of the Tak to other Asahi models would reveal similar construction. If not, then I might be convinced.

Perhaps knowing there are over 30 Soligor 28/2.8 by several manufacturers, all with very similar parts, has jaded me? Laughing


PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

" ...it is unclear why Asahi Optical Co., Ltd. has requested OEM for Tomioka Optical Co., Ltd.-It remains a mystery. "

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpakira3.sakura.ne.jp%2Fwp%2F%3Fp%3D18668


Is it really a mystery? We know that at around this time, the Japanese optical industry could act as one single enterprise in order to fulfill large orders. It wouldn't shock me if AOCO became a victim of their success from time to time and laid the additional orders to other companies to complete.

However...

meian - "My apologies, I mixed it up with the Auto-Takumar 55mm f1.8 zebra which may have been made by Tomioka. I edited my original post to patch my error."

This site gives the lens designer of the Auto Takumar 55 1.8 as AOCo's Ryohei Suzuki, who had arrived from Konishiroku (Konica).

http://douglasviewfinder.blogspot.com/p/known-pentax-lens-designs-and-designers.html


PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The parts do not seems shared. They are slightly different. More likely this is a copying action than a rebadge


PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK You are in luck - maybe.

Most responders seem to have gone off on a tangent on the subject of Asahi Pentax and Yashinon links but as I read your request it is simply to do one thing - you wish to know the distance indicated on your photo for an Auto Takumar 55mm f2. I happen to own a couple of variants of this class of auto Takumar - the f2 variant, the f2.2 variant and the f1.8 variant (as well as some later SMC Takumars or similar specification but you are clear that they are not of interest to you.)

I happen to have readily to hand (i.e. not in storage somewhere obscure and thus able to be easily measured) a copy of the 55mm f2.2 lens which I have often been told (but never confirmed myself) to be identical to the f2 version of the auto Takumar. Happily I also have to hand a digital caliper and can say that as close as my eyes allow the distance you want to know is 8.1mm when the lens is set at infinity.

Assuming the f2 and f2.2 variants of this lens are the same (relabelled for marketing purposes not redesigned) then this should be your answer. Incidentally the auto Takumar f2 and f2.2 are really nice lenses which render especially pleasantly to my eye. I suppose I could go hunting to find my f2 version but please don't ask me to do it lightly - it could take hours to find.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the lens designer link!

Gerjan says the 55/2 Auto-Takumar was manufactured from 1959-1962 while 55/2.2 dates from 1961-1963.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yoyomaoz wrote:
OK You are in luck - maybe.

Most responders seem to have gone off on a tangent on the subject of Asahi Pentax and Yashinon links but as I read your request it is simply to do one thing - you wish to know the distance indicated on your photo for an Auto Takumar 55mm f2. I happen to own a couple of variants of this class of auto Takumar - the f2 variant, the f2.2 variant and the f1.8 variant (as well as some later SMC Takumars or similar specification but you are clear that they are not of interest to you.)

I happen to have readily to hand (i.e. not in storage somewhere obscure and thus able to be easily measured) a copy of the 55mm f2.2 lens which I have often been told (but never confirmed myself) to be identical to the f2 version of the auto Takumar. Happily I also have to hand a digital caliper and can say that as close as my eyes allow the distance you want to know is 8.1mm when the lens is set at infinity.

Assuming the f2 and f2.2 variants of this lens are the same (relabelled for marketing purposes not redesigned) then this should be your answer. Incidentally the auto Takumar f2 and f2.2 are really nice lenses which render especially pleasantly to my eye. I suppose I could go hunting to find my f2 version but please don't ask me to do it lightly - it could take hours to find.


Thank you Peter for your links.
I have tried to follow them before, and Parts 1 & 3 work fine. Part 2 presents as 404 error
Tom


PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldhand wrote:
yoyomaoz wrote:
OK You are in luck - maybe.

Most responders seem to have gone off on a tangent on the subject of Asahi Pentax and Yashinon links but as I read your request it is simply to do one thing - you wish to know the distance indicated on your photo for an Auto Takumar 55mm f2. I happen to own a couple of variants of this class of auto Takumar - the f2 variant, the f2.2 variant and the f1.8 variant (as well as some later SMC Takumars or similar specification but you are clear that they are not of interest to you.)

I happen to have readily to hand (i.e. not in storage somewhere obscure and thus able to be easily measured) a copy of the 55mm f2.2 lens which I have often been told (but never confirmed myself) to be identical to the f2 version of the auto Takumar. Happily I also have to hand a digital caliper and can say that as close as my eyes allow the distance you want to know is 8.1mm when the lens is set at infinity.

Assuming the f2 and f2.2 variants of this lens are the same (relabelled for marketing purposes not redesigned) then this should be your answer. Incidentally the auto Takumar f2 and f2.2 are really nice lenses which render especially pleasantly to my eye. I suppose I could go hunting to find my f2 version but please don't ask me to do it lightly - it could take hours to find.


Thank you Peter for your links.
I have tried to follow them before, and Parts 1 & 3 work fine. Part 2 presents as 404 error
Tom

It seems to no be on Huff's site, I searched his site and used google to, no part 2.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldhand wrote:
yoyomaoz wrote:
OK You are in luck - maybe.

Most responders seem to have gone off on a tangent on the subject of Asahi Pentax and Yashinon links but as I read your request it is simply to do one thing - you wish to know the distance indicated on your photo for an Auto Takumar 55mm f2. I happen to own a couple of variants of this class of auto Takumar - the f2 variant, the f2.2 variant and the f1.8 variant (as well as some later SMC Takumars or similar specification but you are clear that they are not of interest to you.)

I happen to have readily to hand (i.e. not in storage somewhere obscure and thus able to be easily measured) a copy of the 55mm f2.2 lens which I have often been told (but never confirmed myself) to be identical to the f2 version of the auto Takumar. Happily I also have to hand a digital caliper and can say that as close as my eyes allow the distance you want to know is 8.1mm when the lens is set at infinity.

Assuming the f2 and f2.2 variants of this lens are the same (relabelled for marketing purposes not redesigned) then this should be your answer. Incidentally the auto Takumar f2 and f2.2 are really nice lenses which render especially pleasantly to my eye. I suppose I could go hunting to find my f2 version but please don't ask me to do it lightly - it could take hours to find.


Thank you Peter for your links.
I have tried to follow them before, and Parts 1 & 3 work fine. Part 2 presents as 404 error
Tom


Yes thanks - happy to hear of your interest in the articles. When I discovered it was missing, after being available on his site for a few years I wrote to Huff about it a few months ago but he never responded - I guess somehow it was lost off his server and he is unable to reinstate it. I suppose I could resend the article and ask him to reupload the article but I do not have the exact record of the images used as the article text and the images had to be sent for some obscure reason in different emails. Never the less you remind me of the loss of the article so perhaps I should try to reconstruct it and send it to him in the hope that he will do so.

EDIT: Prompted by your interest (thank you again) I had an idea about how to find the files needed to reinstate the article on Huff's site and thankfully was now able to find them. (I am not sure why they did not turn up in a previous search of my system but using a slightly different search approach worked). So I have once more written to Huff explaining the situation and offering now to send him the article contents so he can put them up once more. I hope now that he knows I have what is needed for him to do so he will respond positively. If I get word that the thread is back up I will post a message on this site to let people know.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yoyomaoz wrote:
I happen to have readily to hand (i.e. not in storage somewhere obscure and thus able to be easily measured) a copy of the 55mm f2.2 lens which I have often been told (but never confirmed myself) to be identical to the f2 version of the auto Takumar. Happily I also have to hand a digital caliper and can say that as close as my eyes allow the distance you want to know is 8.1mm when the lens is set at infinity.

Assuming the f2 and f2.2 variants of this lens are the same (relabelled for marketing purposes not redesigned) then this should be your answer. Incidentally the auto Takumar f2 and f2.2 are really nice lenses which render especially pleasantly to my eye. I suppose I could go hunting to find my f2 version but please don't ask me to do it lightly - it could take hours to find.


Auto Takumar 55mm f2.2 is also cleared by Panoramaplanet's list so if it's the same lens as Auto Takumar 55mm f2 this case would be solved. As you wished I will not ask you to go hunting your f2 version and I thank you for your measurement of your f2.2 version! Smile I consider this case half-solved until someone can confirm that the f2 version is indeed 8.1mm too.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
It seems to no be on Huff's site, I searched his site and used google to, no part 2.


It can be read from the Wayback Machine, but unfortunately not all the photos are archvides.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150323143622/http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/12/02/character-style-and-mood-in-photography-part-2-by-peter-maynard/

Edit: Found image 1:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170222090238if_/http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Image-11-680x930.jpg


Last edited by meian on Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

meian wrote:
yoyomaoz wrote:
I happen to have readily to hand (i.e. not in storage somewhere obscure and thus able to be easily measured) a copy of the 55mm [i]f2.2 lens which I have often been told (but never confirmed myself) to be identical to the f2 version of the auto Takumar. Happily I also have to hand a digital caliper and can say that as close as my eyes allow the distance you want to know is 8.1mm when the lens is set at infinity.

Assuming the f2 and f2.2 variants of this lens are the same (relabelled for marketing purposes not redesigned) then this should be your answer. Incidentally the auto Takumar f2 and f2.2 are really nice lenses which render especially pleasantly to my eye. I suppose I could go hunting to find my f2 version but please don't ask me to do it lightly - it could take hours to find.


Auto Takumar 55mm f2.2 is also cleared by Panoramaplanet's list so if it's the same lens as Auto Takumar 55mm f2 this case would be solved. As you wished I will not ask you to go hunting your f2 version and I thank you for your measurement of your f2.2 version! Smile I consider this case half-solved until someone can confirm that the f2 version is indeed 8.1mm too.
[/i]

Well Meian you are in luck. As it happened I recalled where I may have stored the F2 and I was right - I found it in that place without pain. I can confirm that the measurements are identical. At infinity the f2 also extends 8.1mm to the rear of the lens mounting face (actually 8.09mm on this specimen but that's close enough for all practical purposes - Individual variation?)


PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yoyomaoz wrote:
Well Meian you are in luck. As it happened I recalled where I may have stored the F2 and I was right - I found it in that place without pain. I can confirm that the measurements are identical. At infinity the f2 also extends 8.1mm to the rear of the lens mounting face (actually 8.09mm on this specimen but that's close enough for all practical purposes - Individual variation?)


Thank you very much yoyomaoz! Now my query is 100% solved. Like 1 small Now... I'll start to look around for a nice copy to buy. This is great! Smile