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Zamo
Joined: 08 Feb 2019
Posts: 163
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 Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:04 pm Post subject: Color behavior of Konica Hexanon 45-100 UC f4 |
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Zamo wrote:
Hi all. In February I took my APSC Sony a6000 with the Konica Hexanon 45-100 UC f3.5 up to the most visited National Park in Europe, "Las Cañadas del Teide", in Tenerife, Spain. A place full of wonders and extremely photogenic. The zoom is great to use and handle, very nice construction, but it has a strange behavior. Wide open it renders pictures that are much warmer than closed down. It happened consintently. Here, an example at 100mm at f3.5 and f8. The difference in composition (more or less sky on it) is not what makes a difference, I have some other pictures with almost identical images and it happens just the same. Any ideas of why that happens?
Also, surprisingly, there is vignetting wide open. In an APSC sensor. It has to be very pronounced in a full frame camera.
Sorry about the out of focus in the f3.5 picture, my mistake. I had no tripod and focusing was not too easy at 100mm. Still, I suspect wide open it is less sharp than what I have read around there... will need to really test it properly. This was a pleasure short trip, not a test-your-fancy-gear outing  Light was also not at its best, it was around midday.
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Last edited by Zamo on Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10531
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Camera (or PP software) auto white balance setting? Compare again with camera white balance set to Daylight.
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Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 7553
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Are you your lens is Konica Hexanon 45-100 UC f/4 instead of 45-100 f/3.5?
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 2921
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
AWB uses algorithms that use elements in the scene to calculate the 'correct' WB. As it is just an algorithm, it is not flawless and things like vignetting at large apertures can influence the outcome of the algorithm resulting in less accurate WB. |
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Zamo
Joined: 08 Feb 2019
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Zamo wrote:
| calvin83 wrote: |
| Are you your lens is Konica Hexanon 45-100 UC f/4 instead of 45-100 f/3.5? |
Yes, you are right, where it says 3.5 it should say 4, and pictures were taken fully open at 3.5.
I edited the first post, can’t change the subject. Sorry for the mistake.
Last edited by Zamo on Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zamo
Joined: 08 Feb 2019
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Zamo wrote:
| caspert79 wrote: |
| AWB uses algorithms that use elements in the scene to calculate the 'correct' WB. As it is just an algorithm, it is not flawless and things like vignetting at large apertures can influence the outcome of the algorithm resulting in less accurate WB. |
I thought that could be it, but never had experienced that before in an apsc camera. Vignetting with this lens is quite pronounced I imagine… (can’t test it properly without a full frame sensor). |
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Zamo
Joined: 08 Feb 2019
Posts: 163
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Zamo wrote:
And checked. I opened it with Lightroom and the cold one (F8 ) had a WB as of the camera of 4900 and the warmer one (f3.5) of 5500. I have to say, I have never experienced this behavior of the camera before, and I was "blaming" the lens instead of the obvious auto WB. Thanks to everyone! I will try to test this lens a bit more and share the results, since it is not too common. |
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RokkorDoctor
Joined: 27 Nov 2021
Posts: 1267
Location: Kent, UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:27 am Post subject: |
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RokkorDoctor wrote:
| Zamo wrote: |
| And checked. I opened it with Lightroom and the cold one (F8 ) had a WB as of the camera of 4900 and the warmer one (f3.5) of 5500. I have to say, I have never experienced this behavior of the camera before, and I was "blaming" the lens instead of the obvious auto WB. Thanks to everyone! I will try to test this lens a bit more and share the results, since it is not too common. |
In-camera AWB has its uses, but I tend to avoid it precisely because of what you found. Inconsistent colour balance between near identical shots.
WB correction in PP is more predictable to deal with.
It is a personal choice, but for my in-camera JPEGs I tend to keep the camera on daylight white-balance. Having images taken in sunny conditions look warmer, and having images taken under overcast conditions look cooler looks more natural to me anyway, in context of the associated differences in both shadow sharpness/diffusion and shadow colour.
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Mark
SONY A7S, A7RII + dust-sealed modded Novoflex/Fotodiox/Rayqual MD-NEX adapters
Minolta SR-1, SRT-101/303, XD7/XD11, XGM, X700
Bronica SQAi
Ricoh GX100
Minolta majority of all Rokkor SR/AR/MC/MD models made
Sigma 14mm/3.5 for SR mount
Tamron SP 60B 300mm/2.8 (Adaptall)
Samyang T-S 24mm/3.5 (Nikon mount, DIY converted to SR mount)
Schneider-Kreuznach PC-Super-Angulon 28mm/2.8 (SR mount)
Bronica PS 35/40/50/65/80/110/135/150/180/200/250mm |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 10531
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
| RokkorDoctor wrote: |
| Zamo wrote: |
| And checked. I opened it with Lightroom and the cold one (F8 ) had a WB as of the camera of 4900 and the warmer one (f3.5) of 5500. I have to say, I have never experienced this behavior of the camera before, and I was "blaming" the lens instead of the obvious auto WB. Thanks to everyone! I will try to test this lens a bit more and share the results, since it is not too common. |
In-camera AWB has its uses, but I tend to avoid it precisely because of what you found. Inconsistent colour balance between near identical shots.
WB correction in PP is more predictable to deal with.
It is a personal choice, but for my in-camera JPEGs I tend to keep the camera on daylight white-balance. Having images taken in sunny conditions look warmer, and having images taken under overcast conditions look cooler looks more natural to me anyway, in context of the associated differences in both shadow sharpness/diffusion and shadow colour. |
AND, color rendering differences between lenses can be seen when comparing results side-by-side...
_________________
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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alex_d
Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 322
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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alex_d wrote:
WB on auto will change with the aperture.
Gray card is your friend .. |
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