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Best affordable 500mm MF telephoto
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:27 am    Post subject: Best affordable 500mm MF telephoto Reply with quote
As in title... i was thinking of the Tamron 31A SP F5.6 200-500 but I don't need zoom ...it will be at the long end all the time ..are there better-fixed 500s for the same money or as good fixed 500 for less,a longer lens will be better but I think they are thin on the ground ...i did have the older non SP 200-500 F6.3 a long time ago..when the 20D was a new camera .. it was maybe a bit better than the cheap generic 500s like the Photax etc I was not too impressed with it although I got made an offer I could not refuse before I really tested it out so sold it


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
"Best" and affordable are an interesting mixture.
Some of the very fast 500mm lenses are probably not affordable, and some of the slower ones are not as good as the expensive lenses.
A very good sharp lens that can sometimes be found relatively cheaply is the Minolta AF Reflex 500mm f8
It can easily be used in manual mode
I have taken lots of sharp pictures with mine and am pleased to recommend it
Tom

Last edited by Oldhand on Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:43 am; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
i would highly recommend the MC MTO 500/8 it should be very affordable (model: MC 3M-5CA)
and resolution is well above censor capabilities.
you can shoot 4k and x10 digital crop you will see every detail.
ofc stills shots are nice aswell
on a full frame camera vignetting is visible, but easily solved in post.
the lens is small and very light! and very well build!
also diameter of the lens is ergonomic its a thin lens, pleasant to operate.
finally if you want a faster lens like 500/5.6 get ready to sacrifice some of the the pluses above.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A mirror lens is the most obvious candidate for this. http://forum.mflenses.com/a-good-500mm-mirror-lens-dilemma-t73324.html


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Your options open up a lot if you are not fixed on 500mm. Face it the difference in FoV between 400mm and 500mm is really rather small... you would be well advised to consider a few more MPx on the sensor to make up any difference.
400mm options wil be faster and (I am thinking specifically of refractive lenses, the mirrors have very good close focus) will have closer focus, so when you can get closer you get the benefit.
My experience with cheap vintage telephotos is that there is normally no benefit of 500mm over 400mm, the advantages of the 400mm mean that the end results are equal or in most cases better than a similar 500mm. The adaptall SP 200-500mm, (which is a lot better than its f6.9 predecessors btw) is an exception to this, with that lens you do get the benefit of the extra reach.
IMO the best bang for buck is the (version 2) sigma apo 400mm f5.6 - or at least it would be if this lens wasn't plagued by an invariably hazed cemented group in the middle of the lens. However it is possible to find one that is only minimally affected, with negligible effect on iq.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well i did (do) have 2 mirror lenses ..the 500 Rokkor and the late 500 Tamron, unfortunately, I store them badly when we had some house renovation and then forgot about them and they succumb to fungus ..i never even used the Tamron ...i did use the Rokkor on a Nex 3c but realised it was VERY hard to focus and i am not too gone over the Bokeh...how would the Tamron 200-500 SP comper sharpness wise to say one of the aforementioned cat lenses...i spouse what I am asking on here can I do better than the Tamron 200-500 for the same outlay as i don't need a zoom


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If mirror lens is ok, check the Tamron SP. Heck of a lot easier to utilize than my 7-kiilo S-M-C Takumar 1:4.5/500, lol. Not much negative about it online, plenty of raves. Use the forum search function to find many comparisons & reviews here.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 mirror focus PITA.I have used a loupe and magnified live view on the lcd. Practice helps.

Tamron mirrors are easy to clean. I can help you with that.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
marcusBMG wrote:
+1 mirror focus PITA.I have used a loupe and magnified live view on the lcd. Practice helps.

Tamron mirrors are easy to clean. I can help you with that.

I may take you up on that ..i will dig it out ..if i can remember where it is ...i have not used a cat lens since my Nex 3c that had 15X loup ..my current camera are Canon EOS Ms and only have 10X loup..i do miss the 15X of the sony ...however, the Canon loup is implemented way better


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
10x is plenty - it's the definition of the image displayed on the lcd that counts IME.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another vote for the Tamron 500mm mirror. A couple of plus points, compared to some others :-

The tripod mount is detachable and reversible, useful if needing to balance a lightweight camera ... it was designed when cameras were metal!
The Tamron #01F Flat-Field converter matches the lens well and is camera-mount independent, being an Adaptall accessory.

The lens was supplied with a nice long metal hood, do try and get a lens with one!
Be aware that there should be a "plain glass" filter fitted in the rear of the lens, which is designed to be replaced, when required, by one of the supplied coloured filters.
Even if you don't get or want the coloured filters, the "plain glass" item, marked "Normal", is required and is part of the optical system.

Good luck Smile


PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There's the Sigma 7.2/500mm APO, an AF lens from the early 1990s (or late 1980s). Not really fast, but most 500mm mirror lenses are f8 as well. It has slightly stronger CAs than the average 500mm mirror lens, but its bokeh of course is much better Wink

I may add a few test shots tomorrow, comparing the Sigma 7.2/500mm with the Nikkor 8/500mm (new) and the Canon nFD 2.8/400mm.

S


PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kypfer wrote:
Another vote for the Tamron 500mm mirror. A couple of plus points, compared to some others :-

The tripod mount is detachable and reversible, useful if needing to balance a lightweight camera ... it was designed when cameras were metal!
The Tamron #01F Flat-Field converter matches the lens well and is camera-mount independent, being an Adaptall accessory.

The lens was supplied with a nice long metal hood, do try and get a lens with one!
Be aware that there should be a "plain glass" filter fitted in the rear of the lens, which is designed to be replaced, when required, by one of the supplied coloured filters.
Even if you don't get or want the coloured filters, the "plain glass" item, marked "Normal", is required and is part of the optical system.

Good luck Smile


55B model? 55BB has different optics.

My Tamron SP 55BB 500mm 1:8 came with Red 80, Orange 58, Yellow 52, and ND4X filters, plus an aperture disc, 28FH hood, and L-50 case. Without any plain glass "Normal" or UV filter. Also no tripod mount on this model -- lens is light enough not to put too much strain on camera mount.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you want to get an affordable mirror lens I have the MTO 500mm lens mentioned earlier and it is a great performer, if you are not set on 500mm I would try to find a nikkor 400mm f3.5 for a decent price. If you have to have 500mm then the nikkor 500mm f4 is a great lens but not exactly cheap. I have the 400 and 500 nikkors and prefer the 400 because of its rendering and size. You really get what you pay for when it comes to telephoto lenses but you can save a lot by getting manual focus ones.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
There's the Sigma 7.2/500mm APO, an AF lens from the early 1990s (or late 1980s). Not really fast, but most 500mm mirror lenses are f8 as well. It has slightly stronger CAs than the average 500mm mirror lens, but its bokeh of course is much better Wink

I may add a few test shots tomorrow, comparing the Sigma 7.2/500mm with the Nikkor 8/500mm (new) and the Canon nFD 2.8/400mm.

S


One thing to be careful with with the Sigma apo telephoto lenses from that era is haze. Most Sigma Apo 400/5.6 of that series have haze on a very hard to reach inner element. I've heard the 500/7.2 have that as well, but I haven't handled any myself. If you get a good copy of the 400/5.6, or better yet an Apo Macro version (those don't suffer from the same haze problem) the results are quite good.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Minolta MD 100 500 f8 APO is really a great lens... although far too heavy... but great bokey and great CA correction.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
There's the Sigma 7.2/500mm APO, an AF lens from the early 1990s (or late 1980s). Not really fast, but most 500mm mirror lenses are f8 as well. It has slightly stronger CAs than the average 500mm mirror lens, but its bokeh of course is much better Wink

I may add a few test shots tomorrow, comparing the Sigma 7.2/500mm with the Nikkor 8/500mm (new) and the Canon nFD 2.8/400mm.

S


Sadly these days we had either really rainy weather - or excellent sunny days with hot tempeartures. Both are really unsuitable for 500mm lens tests, and therefore i could do the promised comparison only today. Please apologize.

I have taken four rather different MF/AF vintage lenses in the 400-500mm range:

* Canon nFD 2.8/400mm L: fastest and most prestigious supertele lens of its time
* Nikkor AiS 8/500mm Reflex: 2nd computation from 1983; one of the best (if not the best) 8/500mm Reflex lenses
* Novoflex T-Noflexar 5.6/400mm: newest version of a classical triplet "fernobjektiv" (not a tele lens!)
* Sigma Min-AF 7.2/500mm: small and rather reasonably priced IF tele lens

Here are 100% crops from the center of JPGs out of the 43 MP full frame Sony A7RIII:

PLEASE CLICK TWICE ON THE IMAGES TO WATCH THEM IN FULL RESOLUTION!



It is obvious that the Canon nFD 2.8/400mm L has by far the best central image quality. Even at f2.8 and using a 43 MP sensor, the image is clear and crisp. Stopping down to f4.5 (not shown here) and f8 seems to slightly increase the resolution.

The Reflex-Nikkor Ai 8/500mm is probably the best of the classical 8/500mm reflex lenses. Nevertheless I wasn't able to get a clear and sharp image on the 43 MP sensor (24 MP and of course 12 MP FF looks much better). Even if this crop might look de-focused, that's the best I could get out the lens.

The Novoflex T-Noflexar 5.6/400mm (newest version) is surprisingly sharp at f8. Wide open at f5.6 some longitudinal CAs are visible, though. Not a bad lens at all, and often available at a good price. Be sure to get the triplet (T-Noflexar), and look for the newest version!

Finally a relatively cheap AF lens from Sigma, the Sigma AF Tele 7.2/500mm. It is really small (about 23.5 cm long and 72mm filter), internal focusing is smooth (yet quite steep), and the minimal focusing distance is 3.5m. It's performance wide open (remember: f7.2!!) may have been OK for grainy fast b/w or color film material from the late 1980s. On a 43 MP sensor the lens must be stopped down to f11 to get decent sharpness in the central part of the image. And yes - I have tested two samples of the Sigma (one Min-AF and one Nik-AF) to be sure that the low peformance at f7.2 is not an outlier.


And here 100% crops from near the corner of 43 MP FF JPGs out of the Sony A7RII:



Again, the Canon 2.8/400mm L has the best detail resolution of these four lenses. However, it struggles a bit with the 43 MP (at 25 MP the images look nearly perfect, apart from CAs). Interestingly, the "L" lens with its two huge ULD glass elements in the front has rather strong lateral CAs. However, they can be removed rather easily in post-processing. I would say this 100% crop (f2.8, corner, 43 MP) looks pretty amazing for a 40 year old fast super-tele (CAs removed, sharpening / contrast applied):



The Nikkor reflex lens has no visible CAs, which is quite remarkable (most other 500mm reflex lenses have some remaining CAs). Its resolution however is not suitable for 43 MP FF sensors (even at 24 MP FF it struggles to keep up with the sensor).

The Novoflex is a simple, yet well corrected triplet (thus not a tele lens). This implies that there's a lot of field curvture; all other aberrations are pretty well corrected. Please be aware that the Novoflex corner crops were taken focusing on the corner itself: If I would have focused to the center, at f5.6 the corners would be rather blurred. At f11, however, both the corners and the center are OK if one focuses correctly (i. d. in the field, between corner and center). On 24 MP sensors, the Noflexar is well suited both for animal photography (wide open) and landscape images with very little CAs (f11).

Finally the Sigma - neither at f11 nor at f16 (not shown here) the corners become sufficiently sharp, bot on 43 MP as well as on 24 MP sensors. Nevertheless, if money is a issue, one can use the Sigma for animal photography quite well. Using 24 MP sensors and stopped down to f8, the detail resolution in the image center is quite OK (better than the Reflex-Nikkor 8/500mm), and it doesn't have the weird donut bokeh of the 8/500mm reflex lenses. For landscape (at least if you want sharp corners) the lens is not suited.

Stephan


PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is your copy of the 500/7.2 completely haze free? Both copies I have seen had a haze problem. Your example pictures show a lower contrast for the Sigma than the other lenses, as you would expect with haze. It could of course be that there are other causes for the less than stellar performance, including poor design..


PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dickb wrote:
Is your copy of the 500/7.2 completely haze free? Both copies I have seen had a haze problem. Your example pictures show a lower contrast for the Sigma than the other lenses, as you would expect with haze. It could of course be that there are other causes for the less than stellar performance, including poor design..


No, they are both clear ... no haze, no fungus.

S


PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a Delemax Preset 500mm f/8 and the sharpness is alright I guess. At least on my APS-C. There's plenty of chromatic aberration but that can be easily fixed in post. There's some fringing on contrasting edges too but it won't break your bank yo.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
i am a big fan of the Canon Reflex 500mm f8 SSC - i have i think 10 other 500/8 mirror lenses (including the tamron, which is also excellent), and it's by far the sharpest, easiest to focus, and produces absolutely stunning results with minimal need for adjustment






#1


PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
benadamx wrote:
i am a big fan of the Canon Reflex 500mm f8 SSC - i have i think 10 other 500/8 mirror lenses (including the tamron, which is also excellent), and it's by far the sharpest, easiest to focus, and produces absolutely stunning results with minimal need for adjustment


Even though I've only used seven 500 mm mirror lenses (of which I still own the Tamron 55B, the Minolta RF Rokkor, and the Canon RL 500 mm f/8...), the Canon (I've got a later sample with nFD mount...) is definitely the best among them. Not only its definition and contrast are outstanding, but the handling of the lens is exemplary, with the smoothest and most precise focusing ring. I've even used it for moon photography with very good results, adding FD 2 x - A and FD 1.4 x- A Extenders - IQ still holds up at 1400 mm in the center!


PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alsatian2017 wrote:
benadamx wrote:
i am a big fan of the Canon Reflex 500mm f8 SSC - i have i think 10 other 500/8 mirror lenses (including the tamron, which is also excellent), and it's by far the sharpest, easiest to focus, and produces absolutely stunning results with minimal need for adjustment


Even though I've only used seven 500 mm mirror lenses (of which I still own the Tamron 55B, the Minolta RF Rokkor, and the Canon RL 500 mm f/8...), the Canon (I've got a later sample with nFD mount...) is definitely the best among them. Not only its definition and contrast are outstanding, but the handling of the lens is exemplary, with the smoothest and most precise focusing ring. I've even used it for moon photography with very good results, adding FD 2 x - A and FD 1.4 x- A Extenders - IQ still holds up at 1400 mm in the center!


I'd like to see Canon compared with Tamron 55BB, the later model with improved optics.


PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:


I'd like to see Canon compared with Tamron 55BB, the later model with improved optics.


Me too, since I've got the older 55B model. As far as I gathered, the new one is better close-up but loses a little bit of sharpness near infinity.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


Taken with the Sony A7 and the Canon Reflex Lens 500 mm f/8, accidentally in crop mode since I was testing a Sigma DC lens at the same time.




Crop of the picture above

For a mirror lens, I think the result is pretty OK...
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