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Question about Jupiter-9
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Question about Jupiter-9 Reply with quote

Hi,
the version of the Jupiter-9 85mm f2 with multi-coating MC is also the sharpest in your opinion?
Thanks.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The old silver ones are the best. Look for a nice one with the focal length in centimeters (8,5cm).


PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

General quality with these lenses is much less depending on the coating, but more how drunk the assembly-crew was, and how the lens was treated during the last 30 to 70 years Smile

In general, the earlier KMZ rangefinder versions have the best reputation, and therefore tend to be more expensive. But that does not mean later lenses are all bad.

Here's a thread on my 1958 LTM Jupiter-9: http://forum.mflenses.com/my-1958-jupiter-9-from-retro-foto-house-85mm-f-2-0-t79953.html

It gives an idea of what such a lens in excellent condition is capable of.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the KMZ Silver lenses are the best, "But" the later Black versions can be adjusted more closely to the Leica spec. The later lenses use a secondary shim for the rear triplet, removing it reduces the focal length. This brings actual focus in better agreement with the RF.

My solution was to move the KMZ glass to a late Black focus mount, focus accurate from 1.5m to infinity. After all that- ended up swapping it to someone that really wanted an adjusted J-9. I have a CZJ 8.5cm F2 in Contax mount with a custom indexed-cam M-Mount adapter.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sjak wrote:
General quality with these lenses is much less depending on the coating, but more how drunk the assembly-crew was,



I read it was more to do with the need for foreign currency and hence standards were allowed to drop in order to increase export productivity as the '60s rolled into the '70s and onwards. It was enough to have the KMZ factory workers threatening to revolt when it was first introduced, which to my mind indicates a modicum of pride in what they made, drunk or otherwise.


Apologies for not citing a link. I can't remember where I read it at the moment.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KEO wrote:
The old silver ones are the best. Look for a nice one with the focal length in centimeters (8,5cm).


Not sure about the sharpness, but I like more the bokeh of the black version:
http://www.musashichan.com/tests/jupiter/jupiter-9-85mm-f-2


PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolan wrote:

Not sure about the sharpness, but I like more the bokeh of the black version:
http://www.musashichan.com/tests/jupiter/jupiter-9-85mm-f-2
It's difficult to assess if the differences are the result of these two individual lenses being from a different generation, or just the usual sample-variation (which especially this lens seems very prone to), or a bit of both.

If sharpness is your main concern, I guess this lens is not the safest choice to begin with.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

some photographers of our city consider jupiter-9 (an inscription Latin) made by LZOS factory of 1987 one of the best version of this lens. I do not know sources of this opinion. I have only three lenses Jupiter-9 ("silver" "P" 1957 KMZ, 1959 "Arsenal" and black export 1986 LZOS). I especially did not ask a question of sharpness of these lenses. I like all three. it is possible to look according to the links

https://www.flickr.com/photos/136961670@N04/albums/72157691820844792

https://www.flickr.com/photos/136961670@N04/albums/72157671027770208

https://www.flickr.com/photos/136961670@N04/albums/72157689492972253


PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharpness is not the strength of this lens. However, all the chrome LTM copies I have tried are sharp enough as portrait lens.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KMZ Jupiter-9, optics mounted in late Barrel, rear group moved in 2mm.

Wide-Open,

Jupiter-9, Wide-Open by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

Jupiter-9, Wide-Open by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

A professional photographer saw my test shots, asked if I could modify his J-9. It could not be modified, so I kept his and traded mine. I end up grabbing the 1937 CZK 8.5cm F2 Sonnar most of the time and it was a shame for this one not to get use.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1937 Carl Zeiss Jena 8.5cm F2 Sonnar, wide-open on the Leica M9. Contax-> adapter, indexed cam.

1937 Sonnar 8.5cm F2, Wide-Open by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

1937 Sonnar 8.5cm F2, Wide-Open by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

1937 Sonnar 8.5cm F2, Wide-Open by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

I used layers of copper tape to build up the cam. The Cam on the adapter rotates with the focus, so I added a correction for close-focus and distance. This lens is good for 1.5m to infinity.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like 1 Like 1 small


PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiter-9 (silver version) in LTM/M39 made 1963 by Lytkarino Optical Glass Factory (LZOS):



PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like 1 Like 1 small


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 85-90mm focal length became pretty expensive lately, and i still don't have any lens3 in this focal length. This jupiter, it should be taken into account for my first lens in this focal, i like the results i see,even though i've always heard about the so many copy variations between the russians glass....so,buying from a known seller would be more recommended i see


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What camera will you be using this lens on? Using it with a Leica calibrated rangefinder complicates things, as the lens must be adjusted. Using on a mirrorless camera or SLR makes things much easier.

Using on a mirrorless camera, buying one in Contax/Kiev mount and using an adapter would probably be the lowest cost purchase.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Soviet-portrait-painter-Jupiter-9-2-85-mount-Contax-Kiev-5503522-K-M-Z/273700111505

Random example.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contax mount ? Which one is the adapter for the sony A7? This lens is coming in M42 mount also,any difference in quality?


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kiddo wrote:
Contax mount ? Which one is the adapter for the sony A7? This lens is coming in M42 mount also,any difference in quality?


Such self made A7-adapters are cheaply available from Russia. They are made from old Kiev RF camera parts and quite often a lens is already included.

Original Contax RF to Sony E-mount adapters like e.g. from Kipon are very expensive; mostly far more than the lens itself.

Ebay is your friend for these adapters.

I've no experience with the newer M42 versions, sorry.
But be aware that if you're looking for a M42 version you might get a fake one; i.e. a M39/Zenit version with additional step-up ring M39 to M42. Such lenses have difficulties with infinity focus as regular M42 adapters (45.46 mm) are too long for the Zenit register distance of only 45.2 mm.
I recommend to use such M39/Zenit lenses rather on a standard M39/LTM adapter with additional extension ring (16.4 mm) to solve this problem. This 16.4 mm extension ring is included in the standard Zenit M39 extension ring set consisting of 4 different rings. Also available via Ebay from Russia for little money.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for so much details. Finally, will gain the rational versus the emotional, as i really need an AF sony mount for fast shooting portraits ,so probably the best value would be the 85 mm 1.8, even though i hate plastics sooo much....


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kiddo wrote:
Thank you for so much details. Finally, will gain the rational versus the emotional, as i really need an AF sony mount for fast shooting portraits ,so probably the best value would be the 85 mm 1.8, even though i hate plastics sooo much....


Which version of the A7 do you have? Maybe the Techart PRO adapter may be a solution for you. It turns every MF lens which is adaptable to Leica-M to an AF lens. I like it very much on my Sony A7R II. Actually my Jupiter-9 is an AF lens therefore. Wink


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mounts with RF coupling are expensive. Adapters for external mount- cheap.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Contax-RF-Outer-Bayonet-lens-to-Sony-E-Mount-a6500-A6300-a6000-a3000-adapter/221421025490

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Contax-RF-lens-2-Sony-NEX-3-NEX-5-NEX-C3-NEX-5N-NEX-7-NEX-VG10-adapter/331301664311

These will adapt lenses made for Nikon, Contax, and Kiev RF's to Sony mirrorless.

This is NOT what you want, but will adapt internal mount to Leica LTM with coupling.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOTOFOX-RF-L39-Contax-Rangefinder-CRF-RF-Lens-to-Leica-Mount-SM-M39-L39-Adapter/283341769316

about 1/4th the price of other adapters, I ordered one.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is de A7II ,techart adapters i read could be the answer ,but aren't cheap and don't work good with any lens ,the few times i've looked for it, was very expensive. I am still quite happy with manual focus generally, exception the few times wich i3 really need a fast AF lens, that's why i assumed the 85 could3 be an alternative, even though i ain't got things right in my head 100%


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inspired by this thread", I just shimmed my unadjusted J-9 to focus correctly from 1.5m to ~25m. Use at F5.6 for infinity.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kiddo wrote:
Mine is de A7II ,techart adapters i read could be the answer ,but aren't cheap and don't work good with any lens ,the few times i've looked for it, was very expensive. I am still quite happy with manual focus generally, exception the few times wich i3 really need a fast AF lens, that's why i assumed the 85 could3 be an alternative, even though i ain't got things right in my head 100%


Well, sometimes you have to do some prefocusing manually, very slow lenses in rather dark environment may be tricky and very heavy lenses must be used carefully. Other than that I don't know of any restriction for the Techart adapter. Only my old PK adapter didn't fit and I had to buy another one. And yes, it does cost something, I've paid EUR 330.- for mine via Amazon. On the other hand it's for many situations faster and better to have the AF than to focus manually, which may take some time to do it really accurate. Additionally it's able to reduce the MFD for any lens, that's also nice to have.

Anyway, it's also a matter of taste and personal preferences. I just wanted to mention this possibility as well.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, most of the times I do well without AF, but there are certain moments wich i really miss it (instant shots, holidays etc) and for these cases i might be ok with only one lens for low light and subject isolation. Already owning the kit zoom (only used once) , I'm between the 55 and 85mm, but finally i would go with the 85, because I don't have any lens in that FL. I might end up disappointed with Sony for it's plastics ,who knows. This russian is indeed a very good performer, sharp and nice bokeh, the third picture I like the most.