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Is it a Zeiss Jena, Pentacon or (answers on a postcard..)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:25 pm    Post subject: Is it a Zeiss Jena, Pentacon or (answers on a postcard..) Reply with quote

So as per my last post in the "what's your latest lens" thread, I ended up with a Carl Zeiss Jena 29mm f/2.8 today as part of a set from a charity shop including a Praktica MTL 50, a Sonnar 135mm f/3.5 and a Pentacon 50mm f/1.8 automatic, the latter being the only one with any visible marks on the glass anywhere, so a result really..

I've had a look and I can't find much information on this lens as a Zeiss lens, I do think there's a chance it was a Pentacon marked as a Zeiss.

The styling is very similar to the Pentacon 50 but it does offer aperture to f/22 rather than f/16.

Interestingly enough, there's no serial number on it, but it does have that late 70s (?) styling. The Sonnar I got is about a million serial numbers earlier than the one I had already, so I might check that on a guess the kit may have been bought around the same time.

Any info would be appreciated.

The lens:





and the results, generally shot around f/5.6-11













These are shot on a full-frame DSLR with no PP other than exposure pushed up to a stop where needed. The last one was around f/16-f/11 on a tripod and at ISO 50 to get as much detail as possible.

Full size versions can be checked for detail via this album: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmubb4K3


Last edited by Gott23 on Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You must be pleased with those results.
Excellent lens
Tom


PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having received a "Carl Zeiss Jena" branded "P" 28mm f/2.8 today I've been doing a bit of searching about ... there is suggestion that the "P" 28mm could be a slightly re-designed Meyer-Optik Görlitz Orestegon re-badged for issue with the Jenaflex SLR, so I'd suggest, as an extension from that idea, that your "P" 29mm was an earlier version, effectively a re-badged Orestegon. Whether these lenses were actually made by Zeiss or it's simply a re-badging exercise by the parent company, Pentacon, isn't made clear.

Either way, both manufacturers and their products have a good reputation Smile

My lens is halfway to being adapted for use on a Pentax, hopefully I'll have some results in a day or two.

On my lens there's an apparent serial number engraved on the black plastic section of the lens mount, opposite the "Made in German Democratic Republic" marking.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intersting find!

Besides the rather uncommon focal length of 29mm, these details seem identical to my Meyer 29mm 2.8:

- filter thread of 55mm
- focus scale
- size of front element compared to the name-ring

My lens is a bit earlier though, it's zebra-styled instead of the more modern (rubber?) grip on the focusing ring.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldhand wrote:
You must be pleased with those results.
Excellent lens


Thanks and definitely - I'd been after a wide angle M42 and had poor results with a PB mount Zeiss 28mm on my EOS. That might be mount issues though but it was ridiculously soft.. :/ This however, is pretty damn sharp except in the extreme corners, but at that size, it's easy enough to crop a little to remedy that..



kypfer wrote:
Having received a "Carl Zeiss Jena" branded "P" 28mm f/2.8 today I've been doing a bit of searching about ... there is suggestion that the "P" 28mm could be a slightly re-designed Meyer-Optik Görlitz Orestegon re-badged for issue with the Jenaflex SLR, so I'd suggest, as an extension from that idea, that your "P" 29mm was an earlier version, effectively a re-badged Orestegon. Whether these lenses were actually made by Zeiss or it's simply a re-badging exercise by the parent company, Pentacon, isn't made clear.

Either way, both manufacturers and their products have a good reputation Smile

My lens is halfway to being adapted for use on a Pentax, hopefully I'll have some results in a day or two.

On my lens there's an apparent serial number engraved on the black plastic section of the lens mount, opposite the "Made in German Democratic Republic" marking.


Uncanny! Very Happy As I said above I've got a PB mount 28mm but it looks more like the last generation Pentacon lenses and it really is horribly soft, but that might be the mount. Whereas the 29mm has a far more solid construction similar to the Pentacon 50 and Pancolar 50 of that time.. I had read that the design was Meyer-Optik based and even an initial glance at the Meyer does show a resemblence. Cannot find a serial number anywhere on it though.. >.<


PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This picture of a lens similar to mine shows a number on the base of the lens, my unit is numbered '0902', not sure whether these are actual serial numbers, though, they both seem to be coincidently low ?!?



PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Review of the m42 version: http://slrlensreview.com/web/reviews/carl-zeiss-lenses-swhorizontalmenu-172/zeiss-wide-angle/397-carl-zeiss-jena-29mm-f28-m42-lens-review

It performs very similar to My Pentacon electric 29mm F2.8 (m42). Probably an incarnation of that lens. Are these shot on full frame? My copy has very soft corners and quite a lot of barrel distortion.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Is it a Zeiss Jena, Pentacon or (answers on a postcard.. Reply with quote

Gott23 wrote:
I've had a look and I can't find much information on this lens as a Zeiss lens, I do think there's a chance it was a Pentacon marked as a Zeiss.


It seems to be a Meyer-Optik Goerlitz Orestegon 29mm/F2.8 which was later after the merger available as "Pentacon". Obviously some of these later lenses have been marked as Carl Zeiss Jena as well. Maybe for export or marketing reasons for specific eastern markets. According to an agreement with Zeiss/Oberkochen the GDR produced lenses were not allowed to bear any Zeiss markings for the western markets. Therefore they have been marked as "aus Jena" or "Pentacon" or "Praktikar" or "Revuenon"......


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
Review of the m42 version: http://slrlensreview.com/web/reviews/carl-zeiss-lenses-swhorizontalmenu-172/zeiss-wide-angle/397-carl-zeiss-jena-29mm-f28-m42-lens-review

It performs very similar to My Pentacon electric 29mm F2.8 (m42). Probably an incarnation of that lens. Are these shot on full frame? My copy has very soft corners and quite a lot of barrel distortion.


Thanks, I had read that one just recently and did seem a bit down on it in general. Looking the exterior, it definitely does echo the Goerlitz design, in fact it's interesting that if you consider the drabness and standardised consumer society of East Germany that lenses produced by three different companies (at one point) have literally boiled down to the same uniform exterior design.

Which brings me to my second point, looking at the bigger picture - boom tish - and considering how a centrally planned economy would work. I'd imagine in a country like the DDR, there'd be variations in quality depending what part of the year's plan you were in; i.e the near the end to it the quicker the product was made to catch up with the expected annual output; ergo the quality fell as the year went on. Combine that with the stagnation of the DDR economy as a whole and the country's collapse then with these "late period" east german lenses are going to be subject to quite marked variations in quality.

I didn't get a chance to really shoot anything test shots on it today but I went back to some more from yesterday. I think it;s going to be a great B&W lens..



No PP other than straight desaturation and exposure dropped half a stop. Dat contrast.

The corners are soft, but there's really not much distortion going on. And I am shooting full frame on a 5DSr.

This is pretty indicative of the corners, though I think this might have been more around the f/4-5.6 mark;



I've got a tendency to shoot at 1x1 since it has a slightly more "MF" feel... so it's not biggy with corners if it's that sharp in the middle.. however, with that contrast, and it being able to focus really close, it's a nice versatile little lens to have around..


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had this lens long time ago, and for some time, I agree, it's same as Pentacon 29/2,8.
But then I remember the OOF aka bokeh both lens is different. (I still have meyer orestegon 29/2,8 and sold my pentacon 29/2,8 which has similar character except Meyer one has better quality).
Pentacon still draw Meyerish bokeh which the carl zeiss jena P 29/2,8 dont have.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many incarnations of the lens 29mm f2.8. Over time coatings have presumably improved. (Contrast affects bokeh especially micro contrast) Also qc for export lenses was more stringent because it brought in hard western currencies. I would think the Carl Zeiss Jena branded ones are more likely to be a good copy than the Pentacons but overall they should perform similar.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does P stands for Pentacon? Regarding the different results obtained from many incarnations of this lens: usually consequence of misaligned rear system. There are three small screws for fine tuning. Fine, even surprising results above!


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I managed to get a few more test shots done at lunch time; this time with the express intent of seeing how the bokeh behaves. So anyone familiar with Goerlitz bokeh, pipe up now!

Firstly, wide open - unprocessed and B&W conversion





so compare that to around f/5.6:





PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what The Pentacon does on the K-1:
Pentacon Electric 29mm F2.9 by The lens profile, on Flickr


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D1N0 wrote:
This is what The Pentacon does on the K-1:
r


Like 1 small

Oddly enough around the edges, the bokeh on that shot resembles what i get from my Helios 58mm 44-2 (which I'm STILL trying to figure out the best way to get THAT bokeh effect from... Very Happy ) ..

As is my usual habit, I forgot what I shot earlier. I did one shot as close as possible and it definitely shows the sharpness even if out a touch; at 2.8 I think that;s pretty good for close up fir B&W, esp high contrast.. It's really what I love about the Zeiss Jena glass, it just seems so much more "film".. PP on this was just ramping up the contrast and upping exposure about a stop. Really does show more of the bokeh though