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Best wide angle lenses for A7iii?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abbazz wrote:
According to user reviews on various forums, it seems that the optical formula has indeed been tweaked on the Sony mount version in order to accommodate the sensor stack on Sony cameras. Optical quality should therefore be better with the Sony mount version when using sony cameras. But the difference between both versions of the 10mm lens is slight anyway, whereas it is more evident on other lenses like the 40mm f/1.2 Nokton.


That's interesting and absolutely new for me.
However, the A7R II and III perform much better anyway due to the changed sensor design. Never read about color shift with these models in combination with wide angle RF lenses and I've never noticed that myself. Maybe that's more important for the other A7 sensor types.
BTW, I'm using also the older VM Nokton 40mm/F1.4 without any issues on my A7R II.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:
BTW, I'm using also the older VM Nokton 40mm/F1.4 without any issues on my A7R II.

I also love the 40/1.4 Nokton on Sony cameras. 40mm is my favorite focal length on 24x36 and the older Nokton is a nice lens: very compact and versatile, beautifully built and offering great image quality. I can shoot almost anything with a 40/1.4 Nokton and a Yeenon close focus helicoid adapter on a Sony a7!

At F/2.0:


(Sorry for the off-topic)

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abbazz wrote:
I also love the 40/1.4 Nokton on Sony cameras.


Obviously we have something in common. Wink
Besides the already mentioned lenses I've got several LTM Voigtlaenders like the 21/4, 25/4 35/1.7, 50/1.5, 75/2.5 and 90/3.5 plus several Leitz RF ones as well. I prefer to use them on Techart PRO for additional AF functionality and it's reducing the minimum focus distance as well.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:
Besides the already mentioned lenses I've got several LTM Voigtlaenders like the 21/4, 25/4 35/1.7, 50/1.5, 75/2.5 and 90/3.5 plus several Leitz RF ones as well. I prefer to use them on Techart PRO for additional AF functionality and it's reducing the minimum focus distance as well.

My most used lenses on Sony are the C/V 10/5.6, 21/1.8, 40/1.4 and 90/3.5. Together, they make a compact, high quality and versatile kit. Rather than the Techart (which I find bulky and unreliable), I prefer to use a Yeenon close focus adapter.

But, as much as I like the superb 24x36 Sony sensors, I also dislike having to deal with dust spots in all my pictures taken at F/11 or smaller aperture. So, I'm increasingly coming back to M4/3 cameras.

I find it so refreshing to have two GM5 bodies and a full assortment of lenses in a small fanny pack that could only accommodate a Sony a7 with a couple of lenses (and would obviously be too small for a DSLR). And I haven't seen a dust bunny for quite a while...

The last version of DXO Photolab is rather good at getting the best of the small sensor files. It pulls almost as much detail in the shadows of a GM5 raw file than Adobe Camera Raw manages to get out of a Sony 24x36 file.

Needless to say that it doesn't make sense to use the Leica mount C/V lenses on the M4/3 sensor (except the 90/3.5). But I have the excellent 25/0.95 Nokton and may also acquire the other lenses from that line in the future.

Cheers,

Abbazz


PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abbazz wrote:
tb_a wrote:
BTW, I'm using also the older VM Nokton 40mm/F1.4 without any issues on my A7R II.

I also love the 40/1.4 Nokton on Sony cameras. 40mm is my favorite focal length on 24x36 and the older Nokton is a nice lens: very compact and versatile, beautifully built and offering great image quality. I can shoot almost anything with a 40/1.4 Nokton and a Yeenon close focus helicoid adapter on a Sony a7!

(Sorry for the off-topic)

Cheers!

Abbazz


I love this lens on my A7.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Abbazz"][quote="tb_a"]
Eriksen wrote:



Cosina wrote:

Optimized optical design

In addition to securing full-size image circle, it adopts optical design optimized for Sony E mount sensor. High resolution is maintained up to the periphery of the screen, and phenomena such as color hue are suppressed.



Abbazz

Can this be different from which Sony model you use it on? I see on DXO mark that also the best Sony FE lenses gives a much lower sharpness on A7R than A7RII..


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cosina wrote:

Optimized optical design

In addition to securing full-size image circle, it adopts optical design optimized for Sony E mount sensor. High resolution is maintained up to the periphery of the screen, and phenomena such as color hue are suppressed.



Eriksen wrote:

Can this be different from which Sony model you use it on? I see on DXO mark that also the best Sony FE lenses gives a much lower sharpness on A7R than A7RII..


That's easy to explain:

A7 + II = same 24MP CMOS sensor, A7 III new 24MP BSI-CMOS sensor
A7R = 36MP CMOS sensor, A7R II + III = new 42MP BSI-CMOS sensor / no AA-filter for all R versions
A7S + II = 12MP CMOS sensor

Up to now there are 5 different sensors and the picture quality is always the result of the specific lens and sensor combination; i.e. 5 different sensors = 5 different results, even with the same lens.

Best of all are A7R II and III as they share the same new BSI-CMOS sensor with the highest resolution and benefit further from the absence of the AA-filter.

It's also evident that RF wide angle lenses perform best on the A7R II and III. Obviously the new sensor design combined with less filtering does the trick. Therfore I don't think that on these cameras the "optimized" E-mount Voigtländers would perform visible differently in comparison to the M-mount version. However, I didn't see any direct comparison up to now.

I am so far very happy with my A7R II and particularly the stunning picture quality it is able to deliver in direct comparison to my Sony FF DSLR with the 24MP filtered CMOS sensor like in the A7, even when the same lens is used on both cameras.
The only downside is the huge file size when you shoot uncompressed RAW for best quality as this is rather demanding for the PC.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abbazz wrote:
Rather than the Techart (which I find bulky and unreliable), I prefer to use a Yeenon close focus adapter.

But, as much as I like the superb 24x36 Sony sensors, I also dislike having to deal with dust spots in all my pictures taken at F/11 or smaller aperture. So, I'm increasingly coming back to M4/3 cameras.

I find it so refreshing to have two GM5 bodies and a full assortment of lenses in a small fanny pack that could only accommodate a Sony a7 with a couple of lenses (and would obviously be too small for a DSLR). And I haven't seen a dust bunny for quite a while...


I've got a similar close focus adapter but I prefer the Techart which is able to do the same but offers AF as well. BTW, which A7 version do you have? I don't find AF unreliable with my A7R II and the Techart, but the AF systems are also different on the various A7 models.

To keep the sensor clean is indeed challeging (different to my Ricoh GXR, where the sensor is protected behind a shutter when you change the lens) as on the A7 the sensor is always unprotected. However, I'm cleaning it regularly and a few spots can easily be removed afterwards.

I have a M43 Panasonic system camera and some original lenses as well, but I don't like the small sensor in combination with my legacy SLR and RF lenses mainly developed for 135 film and I don't want to invest in new lenses any further. Nonetheless, for extreme tele shootings M43 is still nice to have. Wink

Cheers,


PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antoine wrote:
Just a question for tech experts:
-Given CA easily corrected in treatment
- A7iii is only 24 mP
Does it really matter to have the very best or would some good enough cheaper vintage solutions be just as good?
Or is the smearing too bad?

Merry Xmas

Too hard to generalize since quality can vary greatly between manufacturers and within a manufacturers lens line.

You can even do it as a $100-$200 experiment, when the $ is gone, the experiment is over.
Buy a lightly neglected cheap lens, clean it and try it, if you like it, great, keep it and try another.
If you don't like it, sell it for as much as you paid(hopefully for more after cleaning it and extend the experiment)
Think of it as renting the lens for $5 or whatever it works out to.

Honestly, I prefer a few different types of lenses, mainly I go for the better known names as they are more common and it's easier to predict their performance due to easier to find user reports & tests.


PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eriksen wrote:

Can this be different from which Sony model you use it on? I see on DXO mark that also the best Sony FE lenses gives a much lower sharpness on A7R than A7RII.

tb_a answered:

It's also evident that RF wide angle lenses perform best on the A7R II and III. Obviously the new sensor design combined with less filtering does the trick. Therfore I don't think that on these cameras the "optimized" E-mount Voigtländers would perform visible differently in comparison to the M-mount version. However, I didn't see any direct comparison up to now.


OK!
So if it is the low pass filter that cause the problem with the non e-mount voigtlander lenses, then the same issue may occur on the new A7III camera?


PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eriksen wrote:

Can this be different from which Sony model you use it on? I see on DXO mark that also the best Sony FE lenses gives a much lower sharpness on A7R than A7RII.


tb_a wrote:


It's also evident that RF wide angle lenses perform best on the A7R II and III. Obviously the new sensor design combined with less filtering does the trick. Therfore I don't think that on these cameras the "optimized" E-mount Voigtländers would perform visible differently in comparison to the M-mount version. However, I didn't see any direct comparison up to now.


Eriksen wrote:

OK!
So if it is the low pass filter that cause the problem with the non e-mount voigtlander lenses, then the same issue may occur on the new A7III camera?


Actually I have no idea as I haven't seen any M-mount wide angle lens pictures from the A7 III (new 24MP BSI-CMOS sensor) yet and I was never interested in this version. I definitely preferred to buy the A7R II for apprx. the same money as it offers almost the double resolution without AA-filtering.
Therefore the A7R II and III is able to deliver the better image quality with any lens (even the native E-mount ones) compared to the A7 III. That results in better cropping reserve, "sharper" pictures and better large printing quality.

Even my old Ricoh GXR-M 12MP APS-C without AA-filter delivers the better (sharper) pictures compared to the older 24MP Sony FF CMOS sensor with AA-filter (I've got the Sony A850 with the same sensor) in direct comparison and these 2 cameras deliver apprx. the same resolution per sensor square millimeter.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought the Voigtlander 15mm LM-version and I´m glad I went for that instead of the more expensive E-version because in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lb3qrXMqBw&t=169s, somebody tell that the E-version is less sharper..
----------------------------------------------
Quotes:
EMS VISUALS

Apparently the Sony Emount version is less sharper on the corners. So I got my self the M mount which is 100$ cheaper and bought adapters both for my A7sii and C100


DGinola

I've also heard and read this myself; and that's really disappointing. Something about it being due to the short distance between the sensor in a7 series cameras and the mount. Particularly for wider lenses.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abbazz wrote:
If you really want to go wide, there is nothing like the Heliar Hyper-Wide 10mm F/5.6. Pixel peepers will tell you the corners are not as sharp as a tack. Tell the pixel peepers to f..., err... no, tell them that there is no comparison because there is no other 10mm rectilinear lens that covers 24x36!


As of December 2018 there is, the Laowa 10-18mm for FE only. I have posted some images elswhere.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:


I am so far very happy with my A7R II and particularly the stunning picture quality it is able to deliver in direct comparison to my Sony FF DSLR with the 24MP filtered CMOS sensor like in the A7, even when the same lens is used on both cameras.


When it comes to detail resolution, I'm absolutely with you.

Colors are a different thing.

I'm used to the great A900 JPGs, especially when shooting in twilight situations. Direct comparison of the A900 with A7RII during a one-week trip in Italy gave diasppointing color results especially in high-contrast situations. I don't have these side-by-side comparisons here with me, but the attached A850 JPG from the Dom in Fulda says it as well: Absolutely "average" (=boring) light results in a well printale & readily sellable image! Especially the tonal balance between the shadows and the illumitated parts of the Dome is remarkable.

Of course one can do that from the A7RII RAWs as well, but it takes a lot of time.



PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm happy with the CV 15mm III in Leica M mount, but I would have considered the Laowa 10-18mm if buying something today Wink
https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-10-18mm-f-4-5-5-6-fe-zoom/


PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nordentro wrote:
I'm happy with the CV 15mm III in Leica M mount, but I would have considered the Laowa 10-18mm if buying something today Wink
https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-10-18mm-f-4-5-5-6-fe-zoom/


Do you think this zoom lens will give the same IQ as the 15mm prime lens?


PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eriksen wrote:
Nordentro wrote:
I'm happy with the CV 15mm III in Leica M mount, but I would have considered the Laowa 10-18mm if buying something today Wink
https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-10-18mm-f-4-5-5-6-fe-zoom/


Do you think this zoom lens will give the same IQ as the 15mm prime lens?


Laowa have two series of lenses "C" and "D". C are compact and D are "zero distortion". Both come with the name "Dreamer". The 10-18 is a C and the 15 is a D. Of course, if you need, say, a 12mm or 10mm the 15mm won't help you.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an evaluation of the 10-18 mm laowa on philipreeve website. Worth checking ... there are compromises with this lens but look for yourself


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antoine wrote:
There is an evaluation of the 10-18 mm laowa on philipreeve website. Worth checking ... there are compromises with this lens but look for yourself


I looked and couldn't find it.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antoine wrote:
There is an evaluation of the 10-18 mm laowa on philipreeve website. Worth checking ... there are compromises with this lens but look for yourself


e6filmuser wrote:
I looked and couldn't find it.


https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-laowa-10-18mm-4-5-5-6-fe-c-dreamer/


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:
Antoine wrote:
There is an evaluation of the 10-18 mm laowa on philipreeve website. Worth checking ... there are compromises with this lens but look for yourself


e6filmuser wrote:
I looked and couldn't find it.


https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-laowa-10-18mm-4-5-5-6-fe-c-dreamer/


Thanks for the link.

He mentions a green colour cast in the corners but the only image in which this was obvious was one with a "sun star".

This is the first mention of it been parfocal, something I used to value in the old Tamron SP zooms. With such a perspective, I'm not sure how aware users might be in practice.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

e6filmuser wrote:


Thanks for the link.

He mentions a green colour cast in the corners but the only image in which this was obvious was one with a "sun star".

This is the first mention of it been parfocal, something I used to value in the old Tamron SP zooms. With such a perspective, I'm not sure how aware users might be in practice.


What's somehow problematic with these reviews is that they are made with different A7 models and therefore not directly comparable. This review has been done with the A7R II which IMHO performs best with such wide angles.
As already stated before, there are 5 different sensor models available within the A7 series and all of them perform differently.
I have quite many RF and SLR ultra wide angles and none of them is producing any color cast on my A7R II.
Therefore I'm not really interested in this zoom lens anyway. Wink


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pentax FA 31mm 1.8 sould work well


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Piotr Krochmal wrote:
Pentax FA 31mm 1.8 sould work well


Indeed, but the OP was asking for lenses BELOW 20mm. Wink


PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:
Piotr Krochmal wrote:
Pentax FA 31mm 1.8 sould work well


Indeed, but the OP was asking for lenses BELOW 20mm. Wink

My mistake. IMHO, as I've never use it Zeiss 20mm f/4 it is screw lens but it have almost zero distortion and it is small and quite cheap. I went to Laowa 12mm