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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6008 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:52 pm Post subject: 35mm f2.5 Lenses - Are They Angenieux Copies? |
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Oldhand wrote:
I know of three 35mm f2.5 lenses - the Angenieux, the Canon FL and the Sankyo Kohki W-Komura 35mm F/2.5.
I have read somewhere and can't find it again, that the Sankyo Kohki W-Komura 35mm F/2.5 is a copy of the Angenieux.
Is it possible that all three share the same optical design?
Any thoughts please
Tom |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2491
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
There is also the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 35mm F/2.5 _________________ pentaxian |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7553 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:40 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Komura/Canon has one more element than the Angenieux. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6008 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:27 am Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
calvin83 wrote: |
Komura/Canon has one more element than the Angenieux. |
Thank you Calvin.
Do you have access to schematics of the lenses.
I could not find them
Tom |
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Abbazz
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 Posts: 1098 Location: Jakarta
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Abbazz wrote:
There have been many lenses inspired by the Angenieux retrofocus lens with similar designs.
Here's the 35/2.5 Angenieux:
Here's the 35/2.3 Takumar:
Not much of a difference... Except that nowadays the Angenieux is about ten times more expensive than the Takumar!
Cheers!
Abbazz _________________ Il n'y a rien dans le monde qui n'ait son moment decisif, et le chef-d'oeuvre de la bonne conduite est de connaitre et de prendre ce moment. - Cardinal de Retz
The 6x9 Photography Online Resource:
http://artbig.com/ |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16541 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:12 am Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
Excellent Sebastien, Merci bien!
Pierre Angenieux invented the retrofocus design, so of course there are many similar ones... _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
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Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6008 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
Thank you Abbazz.
Appreciated
Tom |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7553 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Oldhand wrote: |
calvin83 wrote: |
Komura/Canon has one more element than the Angenieux. |
Thank you Calvin.
Do you have access to schematics of the lenses.
I could not find them
Tom |
I don't have the Koumra but you can find the Canon here https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/fllenses/index.htm . _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: 35mm f2.5 Lenses - Are They Angenieux Copies? |
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Lightshow wrote:
Oldhand wrote: |
I know of three 35mm f2.5 lenses - the Angenieux, the Canon FL and the Sankyo Kohki W-Komura 35mm F/2.5.
I have read somewhere and can't find it again, that the Sankyo Kohki W-Komura 35mm F/2.5 is a copy of the Angenieux.
Is it possible that all three share the same optical design?
Any thoughts please
Tom |
I wouldn't say that they have similar designs because they are f2.5, it's more a function of the era in which the lens was designed, this was the first design that permitted wide angle lens designs with a mirrorbox that pushed the optics out from their typical location, so when their patent expired, they all copied it in some way... Whether they were 35/2.5, or 28/3.3 or whatever.
Angenieux 35mm f2.5 Retrofocus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_photographic_lens_design
Have a look in this thread, lots of diagrams on variations: http://forum.mflenses.com/skoparex-3-4-35-t23110.html
Auto Takumar 35/2.3
Enna 35/3.5
no-X wrote: |
The classical concept of retrofocal lenses consist of one front element or group of elements (typically negative), which is the base of retrofocal optical formulas and rear optical group.
Almost all typical designs were used for the rear group:
triplet:
tessar:
ernostar:
xenotar:
planar (ultron):
They are sometimes called (after character of the rear group) retrofocal tessar, retrofocal triplet, etc.
Anyway, later retrofocal lenses are more complex and these characteristic signs are present no more. |
35mm f2.5 Color Skopar Not even close to the same design.
Nikkor-S Auto 35mm f/2.8 First version. As you can see, these Nikors are very similar to the Angenieux.
2nd version.
https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0038/index.htm
You can see that the design has progressed from one big negative element to multiple weaker elements.
Canon FL 35/2.5 In this case it is a doublet.
http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1138626.html
Takumar 28/3.5 And in this case, it 2 discrete elements...
https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/S-M-C-Super-Takumar-28mm-F3.5.html
Progressing to a much more modern design:
Zeiss 21mm f/2.8
Other stuff:
Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH
_________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6008 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
Thank you Calvin.
And thank you Lightshow for the comprehensive collection of schematics and explanation.
Much appreciated
Tom |
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