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Soligor 'P' Dream Team
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:09 am    Post subject: Soligor 'P' Dream Team Reply with quote

I recently was fortunate enough to stumble across the final piece of my so-called Soligor "Dream Team" of lenses. After first getting my hands on the 28/2, I was immediately impressed with the build quality and mechanical precision of the lens as well as the images I was getting. A lovely, ethereal quality. I really like the out of focus rendings. For those who get into sharpness and the technical, I will say the lens has plenty of flaws, but the end results continue to impress me. Definitely a very competent lens. So I wanted more! I began reading about the other lenses (even asked around on the forum here a bit) and discovered the Tokina connection with the lenses I was most interested in. I found my way to the 35/2 and like the 28/2, it's lovely, and a better focal length for me. To my surprise, I even managed to find a 55/2.8 macro in Nikon mount (non-AI). But I still had yet to find my most prized of the bunch, the 135/2. Earlier this week, KEH listed one when I happened to be on the site. It was meant to be! Lens arrived in gorgeous condition despite being marked "BGN", as if often the case with KEH and I can't stop smiling. I've been shooting with it on my Fujifilm X-T2 using the Metabones Speedbooster as well as on my Nikon D750 and I'm loving the results! I intend on posting some samples here but for now, a gratuitous lens group photo. What's your experience with these lenses?



PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are skipping 100/2 and 200/2.8?


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like 1 small Like 1 small Like 1 small


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to try out the 2/135! Looks like a good kit you got there!


Gardener wrote:
You are skipping 100/2 and 200/2.8?

Sometimes less is more!


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:
You are skipping 100/2 and 200/2.8?


I won't say if either of these come along at the right price, I would pass on them Smile But I'm not really on the lookout as 200mm isn't really a focal length I seek. I suppose I'd be interested in it's performance. I notice there seem to be two cosmetic (and possibly optical) variations of the Soligor 200/2.8. The one that's narrower for the length of the barrel and then wider near the end of the lens only is the one I see marked "P". The other version seems to be more stout for most of the lens. From the design hallmarks, I'd be more interested in the former I suppose simply because it looks like all the other P lenses. Not sure what the optical differences are.

And as far as the 100/2.8, it seems to be quite rare. I was bidding on one earlier this year (in Nikon AI mount even) but it didn't look optically sound and the bidding went over $100 which felt high for that condition. Was likely serviceable though. Eh, maybe someday!

Do you have experience with either of these?


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These lenses have gone under my radar and I'm now intrigued!

I had a fungus affected 135mm f/2.5 a couple of years ago that shared the same Zuiko like focus ring and gloss body, and it felt like a real quality item, quite unlike the other Soligors that have passed through my hands.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:
. I notice there seem to be two cosmetic (and possibly optical) variations of the Soligor 200/2.8. The one that's narrower for the length of the barrel and then wider near the end of the lens only is the one I see marked "P". The other version seems to be more stout for most of the lens. F


The "P" is the tokina made .. Perhaps the other you are talking about is the sun made 200/2.8 (also sold as Golden/Series) ?


Last edited by PBFACTS on Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never paid attention to the red P on my Soligor C/D 2/135mm.
I have some other Soligor C/D lenses, including the funny Duofocal. I checked the pictures and I found that none of them has the P. It's a bit strange, cause the 55mm Macro has it, and the 100mm Macro I own does not.
Here is the C/D Macro 2.8/100mm, with its extension tube. Found it NOS, with the original paperwork and box.



This is exactly the kind of post that fuels my LBA Smile
I was not aware of "P" lenses, and now I want at least the 100mm and the 200mm (already have plenty of f/2 wides)!
I found that some Tokina-made C/D primes are quite good, including the 24mm. I think they don't enjoy the consideration they deserve, while the Vivitar Series 1 family is more appreciated.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberjunkie wrote:
I never paid attention to the red P on my Soligor C/D 2/135mm.
I have some other Soligor C/D lenses, including the funny Duofocal. I checked the pictures and I found that none of them has the P. It's a bit strange, cause the 55mm Macro has it, and the 100mm Macro I own does not.
Here is the C/D Macro 2.8/100mm, with its extension tube. Found it NOS, with the original paperwork and box.


The "P" are the C/D Tokina made lenses in the first batch of c/d lenses (1974/1975)
I presume this stand for "Premium" because tokina also sold them under their own tm without any cosmetic difference (except rubber grip)
I have no ideas for the origin of the 100mm macro but it does not be tokina made (no "p")

The varifocal are sun made in ~1985


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PBFACTS wrote:


The "P" are the C/D Tokina made lenses in the first batch of c/d lenses (1974/1975)
I presume this stand for "Premium" because tokina also sold them under their own tm without any cosmetic difference (except rubber grip)
I have no ideas for the origin of the 100mm macro but it does not be tokina made (no "p")

The varifocal are sun made in ~1985


I believe the 100mm Macro could be Tokina made.
Looking at the style of the barrel, it looks Tokina. Just like the 2/135mm, and different from the Sun-made Dualfocal.
The screw on the extension tube is like the screw on the 1:1 attachment of the Vivitar "Bokina".
The serial is also typical of other Soligors made by Tokina.
One interesting note:
there are no Tokina-branded equivalents of most C/D lenses.

Btw, my best compliments for your C/D P family.

Great catches.
Finding the same lenses in PK mount is a bit more difficult, got to be patient... Smile


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations!!! Also, that is a very nice pic to show off the collection. Wishing you many great shots with the beautiful glass. jt


PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PBFACTS wrote:
The "P" is the tokina made .. Perhaps the other you are talking about is the sun made 200/2.8 (also sold as Golden/Series) ?


Yes, looks like you are correct, per the serial numbers, that the "fatter" version is the GS whereas the P is a Tokina-made optic. I would be most interested in the P since I love the craftsmanship.



itsfozzy wrote:
These lenses have gone under my radar and I'm now intrigued!

I had a fungus affected 135mm f/2.5 a couple of years ago that shared the same Zuiko like focus ring and gloss body, and it felt like a real quality item, quite unlike the other Soligors that have passed through my hands.


So far, it seems to me these Tokina-made Soligors are wholly a different animal from the other Soligor offerings. Not that the rest aren't possible winners, but the 'P' lenses especially feel very premium. Akin to my Vivitar Series 1 and Tamron SP stuff.



cyberjunkie wrote:
I never paid attention to the red P on my Soligor C/D 2/135mm.
I have some other Soligor C/D lenses, including the funny Duofocal. I checked the pictures and I found that none of them has the P. It's a bit strange, cause the 55mm Macro has it, and the 100mm Macro I own does not.
Here is the C/D Macro 2.8/100mm, with its extension tube. Found it NOS, with the original paperwork and box.


I did come across this lens and caught the serial didn't indicate Tokina-made. Also it looked like a few people here on the forum had less-than-positive experiences with this lens. How is yours? Like you, cosmetically it certainly does appear to look like the other Tokina-made Soligors. That adapter definitely resembles the 1:1 adapter that came with my 55mm (not pictured because it's in a couple pieces as I repair the aperture lever which would stick a bit).

cyberjunkie wrote:
One interesting note:
there are no Tokina-branded equivalents of most C/D lenses.


I wondered about this too. Much to my surprise as well, Tokina DID appear to produce the 28/2.0 and 35/2.0 under their own name and the RMC multi-coating, which I now believe to be what the "P" is about. Semantically what it stood for, professional, plura-coat, etc...who knows. But my guess is it's about the coating. Anyway, check it out:

28mm



As well as this thread right here on the forums:

http://forum.mflenses.com/tokina-rmc-28mm-f2-0-t54205.html

35mm



To date, I have found no evidence that Tokina ever made a self-branded 135/2, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if one surfaced.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justtorchit wrote:
PBFACTS wrote:
The "P" is the tokina made .. Perhaps the other you are talking about is the sun made 200/2.8 (also sold as Golden/Series) ?


Yes, looks like you are correct, per the serial numbers, that the "fatter" version is the GS whereas the P is a Tokina-made optic. I would be most interested in the P since I love the craftsmanship.



itsfozzy wrote:
These lenses have gone under my radar and I'm now intrigued!

I had a fungus affected 135mm f/2.5 a couple of years ago that shared the same Zuiko like focus ring and gloss body, and it felt like a real quality item, quite unlike the other Soligors that have passed through my hands.


So far, it seems to me these Tokina-made Soligors are wholly a different animal from the other Soligor offerings. Not that the rest aren't possible winners, but the 'P' lenses especially feel very premium. Akin to my Vivitar Series 1 and Tamron SP stuff.



cyberjunkie wrote:
I never paid attention to the red P on my Soligor C/D 2/135mm.
I have some other Soligor C/D lenses, including the funny Duofocal. I checked the pictures and I found that none of them has the P. It's a bit strange, cause the 55mm Macro has it, and the 100mm Macro I own does not.
Here is the C/D Macro 2.8/100mm, with its extension tube. Found it NOS, with the original paperwork and box.


I did come across this lens and caught the serial didn't indicate Tokina-made. Also it looked like a few people here on the forum had less-than-positive experiences with this lens. How is yours? Like you, cosmetically it certainly does appear to look like the other Tokina-made Soligors. That adapter definitely resembles the 1:1 adapter that came with my 55mm (not pictured because it's in a couple pieces as I repair the aperture lever which would stick a bit).

cyberjunkie wrote:
One interesting note:
there are no Tokina-branded equivalents of most C/D lenses.


I wondered about this too. Much to my surprise as well, Tokina DID appear to produce the 28/2.0 and 35/2.0 under their own name and the RMC multi-coating, which I now believe to be what the "P" is about. Semantically what it stood for, professional, plura-coat, etc...who knows. But my guess is it's about the coating. Anyway, check it out:

28mm



As well as this thread right here on the forums:

http://forum.mflenses.com/tokina-rmc-28mm-f2-0-t54205.html

35mm



To date, I have found no evidence that Tokina ever made a self-branded 135/2, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if one surfaced.
Friends


PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justtorchit wrote:


cyberjunkie wrote:
I never paid attention to the red P on my Soligor C/D 2/135mm.
I have some other Soligor C/D lenses, including the funny Duofocal. I checked the pictures and I found that none of them has the P. It's a bit strange, cause the 55mm Macro has it, and the 100mm Macro I own does not.
Here is the C/D Macro 2.8/100mm, with its extension tube. Found it NOS, with the original paperwork and box.


I did come across this lens and caught the serial didn't indicate Tokina-made. Also it looked like a few people here on the forum had less-than-positive experiences with this lens. How is yours? Like you, cosmetically it certainly does appear to look like the other Tokina-made Soligors. That adapter definitely resembles the 1:1 adapter that came with my 55mm (not pictured because it's in a couple pieces as I repair the aperture lever which would stick a bit).

cyberjunkie wrote:
One interesting note:
there are no Tokina-branded equivalents of most C/D lenses.


I wondered about this too. Much to my surprise as well, Tokina DID appear to produce the 28/2.0 and 35/2.0 under their own name and the RMC multi-coating, which I now believe to be what the "P" is about. Semantically what it stood for, professional, plura-coat, etc...who knows. But my guess is it's about the coating. Anyway, check it out:


Well, I had no time to test the 100mm Macro. It's a recent acquisition.
I live abroad and I use new optics in batches. I bring some with me, use them, then exchange part of the content of my (huge) photo bag when I go back home.
This time I have with me another 100mm Macro that was repaired just before my departure. Had to check it...

The acquisition of that lens has its own story.
At first I thought it could have been another version of the "Bokina". It happens that rebranded optics report different focal/speed from the original.
My hypothesis proved wrong, it has a different optical layout and the 1:1 attachment has no glass in it.
There is a thread on pentaxforums about all that:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/354955-soligor-bokina.html
Interestingly, another user posted an example of the bokeh rendition, and reported a performance not dissimilar from the highly praised Tokina/Vivitar lens.

About C/D lenses with counterparts in Tokina catalogue, I believe the 24mm could be like the Tokina-branded one.
I should find the cut-out of the optic to confirm that.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also had those. They are really nicely built. The 28mm has the coolest looking ghosting ever if you point it against the sun Wink


PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nordentro wrote:
I've also had those. They are really nicely built. The 28mm has the coolest looking ghosting ever if you point it against the sun Wink


Will try it very soon!
Found the C/D P 2/28mm for a very decent price in the USA.
Got it in my in-law's mailbox minutes before leaving Smile




Now I have two members of the family (I already had the 2/135mm, that is my favorite high-speed lens in this focal length). Both in M42 mount. I'd prefer them in PK mount, but they are not so easy to find...


PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently sold my 28 / 2, it was a lens I really wanted to like, I kept trying it, but it was no good. There was never a decent picture from it. To a degree I do regret selling it because I like my Soligors, and the build quality of this lens was exceptional. It was such a shame that optically it was very poor. Maybe it was a faulty lens?

I have also got the 200 / 2.8, and I really like this lens. I'm sure there are better lenses of the same specification, but not in this price range. It's very good.

My 70 - 210 / 3.5 is another in the same range of Soligor CD lenses that I've got, or had, and that's not bad at all. It's not quite in the same league as the Vivitar's, but they have set the bar very high for third party 70- 210 lenses.

My 24 - 45 / 3.5 - 4.5 Soligor CD isn't bad either, but again it's a lens that is just beaten by the similar Tamron's. But the Soligors are usually way ahead of the other competitors, which I think is how we have to treat Soligor's today. Some are exceptional, but most seem to be 'good'. If I'd have bought them new back in the day to use on my Canon AE1P or Pentax SP1000 I would have been really happy with them. It's only in comparison to the competition, not the major manufacturers but other third party suppliers, that Soligor should be judged. The 28mm is the only Soligor I've ever sold, but I will buy another when I see one just incase it really is a great lens.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:18 am    Post subject: Re: Soligor 'P' Dream Team Reply with quote

justtorchit wrote:
I recently was fortunate enough to stumble across the final piece of my so-called Soligor "Dream Team" of lenses. After first getting my hands on the 28/2, I was immediately impressed with the build quality and mechanical precision of the lens as well as the images I was getting. A lovely, ethereal quality. I really like the out of focus rendings. For those who get into sharpness and the technical, I will say the lens has plenty of flaws, but the end results continue to impress me. Definitely a very competent lens. So I wanted more! I began reading about the other lenses (even asked around on the forum here a bit) and discovered the Tokina connection with the lenses I was most interested in. I found my way to the 35/2 and like the 28/2, it's lovely, and a better focal length for me. To my surprise, I even managed to find a 55/2.8 macro in Nikon mount (non-AI). But I still had yet to find my most prized of the bunch, the 135/2. Earlier this week, KEH listed one when I happened to be on the site. It was meant to be! Lens arrived in gorgeous condition despite being marked "BGN", as if often the case with KEH and I can't stop smiling. I've been shooting with it on my Fujifilm X-T2 using the Metabones Speedbooster as well as on my Nikon D750 and I'm loving the results! I intend on posting some samples here but for now, a gratuitous lens group photo. What's your experience with these lenses?



Congratulations. Very nice collection. I've only got two 35mm f/2 (with one of them needing repair) and two 200mm f/2.8 (
bought another one dirt cheap last year but later found out I got one 15 years ago ). I have been very interested in Vivitar
lenses (and some of the Soligor ones). Now I've just shifted my focus to Soligor.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The macro on the right reminds me of the Komine, but the Komine extends on both sides, over and under the focusing ring...
I guess all the "C/D P" family is Tokina made.
What's the serial?

I have both the 2/135mm and the 2/28mm I showed in a previous post. Same year (1974) and same mount (M42).
Have you ever seen these lenses in PK mount?
I have never seen one, which would mean that the production ceased before the introduction of the Pentax K mount.
Thanks in advance for any info

cheers

Paolo


PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberjunkie wrote:
The macro on the right reminds me of the Komine, but the Komine extends on both sides, over and under the focusing ring...


The optical scheme of komine made 55mm 2.8/macro (vivitar, panagor...) is SAME as the soligor c/d 55mm 2.8 macro (5/4)
This is certainly the same lens and the differences on extensions is certainly due to macro capabilities : 1:1 for komine (= double extension) // 1:2 for Soligor (single extension)


cyberjunkie wrote:
I have both the 2/135mm and the 2/28mm I showed in a previous post. Same year (1974) and same mount (M42).
Have you ever seen these lenses in PK mount?

The original batch of c/d lenses : 28/2 + 35/2 + 135/2 + 200/2.8 + 55 macro + 100 macro + 70/210 3.5 + 80/200 3.5 followed with 35/105 + 70/220 macro + 100/300 stopped in ~1978 when the original soligor (allimatsu co/aic) bankrupted leaving a high debt to Tokina

As far i remember that orginal cd/ lenses were never sold in P/k mount

It has to be confirmed if Tokina c/d lenses were sold at the same period as soligor c/d or later with unpaid soligor's just rebranded to Tokina's name

Perhaps Tokina sold c/d lenses in pk mount (to be confirmed)

After 1978 the soligor lenses were mainly sun's whith a lower quality level


PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PBFACTS wrote:
cyberjunkie wrote:
The macro on the right reminds me of the Komine, but the Komine extends on both sides, over and under the focusing ring...


The optical scheme of komine made 55mm 2.8/macro (vivitar, panagor...) is SAME as the soligor c/d 55mm 2.8 macro (5/4)
This is certainly the same lens and the differences on extensions is certainly due to macro capabilities : 1:1 for komine (= double extension) // 1:2 for Soligor (single extension)


cyberjunkie wrote:
I have both the 2/135mm and the 2/28mm I showed in a previous post. Same year (1974) and same mount (M42).
Have you ever seen these lenses in PK mount?

The original batch of c/d lenses : 28/2 + 35/2 + 135/2 + 200/2.8 + 55 macro + 100 macro + 70/210 3.5 + 80/200 3.5 followed with 35/105 + 70/220 macro + 100/300 stopped in ~1978 when the original soligor (allimatsu co/aic) bankrupted leaving a high debt to Tokina

As far i remember that orginal cd/ lenses were never sold in P/k mount

It has to be confirmed if Tokina c/d lenses were sold at the same period as soligor c/d or later with unpaid soligor's just rebranded to Tokina's name

Perhaps Tokina sold c/d lenses in pk mount (to be confirmed)

After 1978 the soligor lenses were mainly sun's whith a lower quality level


This is something I suspected, I mean, the Komine link, because of the 90mm Macro that is visibly Komine-made... but I thought that ALL C/D P lenses were Tokina's, and that only non-P were manufactured by other lens makers (like the G/S, that seem all Sun's).

Interestingly, I have the 100mm Macro that is a Tokina (build and serial confirm that), but has no red P.

The bankruptcy you refer to means that Impex sold the brand to another company?
I guess that the PK (and PKA!) lenses were sold way past that date. Most seem to be Sun-made.
I have no idea if the G/S line was marketed after the C/D, or was contemporary and continued to be sold for some time afterwards.

Btw, I think 1978 was the year I bought my first Pentax: the MX. I switched from a Nikkormat.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cyberjunkie wrote:

This is something I suspected, I mean, the Komine link, because of the 90mm Macro that is visibly Komine-made... but I thought that ALL C/D P lenses were Tokina's, and that only non-P were manufactured by other lens makers (like the G/S, that seem all Sun's).

Interestingly, I have the 100mm Macro that is a Tokina (build and serial confirm that), but has no red P.

The bankruptcy you refer to means that Impex sold the brand to another company?"

AIC bankrupt in 1978 as well as Allimatsu corp (the japan sourcing company behind soligor name) and died

AIC gmbh , the german branch of aic (founded in 1968) took over the destiny of the tm and becam soligor gmbh in 1993

cyberjunkie wrote:
I guess that the PK (and PKA!) lenses were sold way past that date. Most seem to be Sun-made

During the period 1978>1993 most lenses were sun made (+ komine + kobori (tefnon))
After 1993 most lenses were Cosina or Kobori
cyberjunkie wrote:
I have no idea if the G/S line was marketed after the C/D, or was contemporary and continued to be sold for some time afterwards

The G/S series was sold during a short period (circa 1985)
the C/D lenses were sold during all the time life of Soligor upwards 1975 but without a certain added value (some lenses were good, some lenses not)


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have any samples with the 28/2?


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I almost always do a torture test with my new lenses.
This is shot at minimum focusing distance, wide open.
It gives an idea of the lens at its worst:

K_1_5829 by spaulein, on Flickr


I swear I didn't disturb them in their intimacy Smile


PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PBFACTS wrote:

The G/S series was sold during a short period (circa 1985)
the C/D lenses were sold during all the time life of Soligor upwards 1975 but without a certain added value[i] (some lenses were good, some lenses not)


I found that the G/S series started a little earlier.
Just bought a Tele-Auto MC 400mm G/S that has a serial number that confirms the maker (Sun) and gives the year of manufacturing (1982).
I have seen another example, owned by another pentaxian, which was made in 1980.
So the G/S line was sold at least since 1980.

cheers
Paolo