Known gems which are well hidden (by accident)

[alex ph]

The first versions of Jupiter-8 which were produced under the name of "Sonnar Krasnogorsky" or ZK are pretty rare and highly sought after. The prices easily touch the equivalent of original Zeiss Sonnars or climb even much higher.

In this situation it is quite shoking to discover that these lenses might still be found in "genuine" sellings, when the seller is anaware of their value. I accidently fell down on an ended auction where such lens coming from the 1950, in as new condition, was sold for humble 12.50 euros.



How did that happen? Because the seller did everything for the lens could not be found with keyword search. He or she transcribed the lens name as "30PKNÑ 3k". Not bad, as an art of hiding gems, right?

I wonder if the person who bought it had a better knowledge of its collector value.

[iangreenhalgh1]

These rarities didn't get exported so they are impossible to find in the west. I've been watching Kiev, Zorki and Fed auctions for years looking for a rarity and yet to see one earlier than a 1954 J8 on a Kiev II, which I bought.

[alex ph]

As you see, sometimes you might fell to one of them in the West. But you should be able to search them under the most incredible names!

[kds315*]

Here is one offered: Click here to see on Ebay

[Gardener]

On a somewhat related note, I'd been mulling over the notion of a certain household appliance. It's not exactly cheap, the current model is pushing $1000, but it's been manufactured for decades, and it's not impossible to find a gently used old model in the vicinity of $300. Then, on one of the boards I occasionally visit someone posted a helpful advice - look on ebay. That board is well attended, prides itself on its friendliness and many of its users are very enthusiastic rank amateurs. Ever since, every unit that has appeared for sale initiated a crazy bidding war, and by now I've abandoned the idea.

[newst]

I don't go for these Ebay auctions, particularly when a 1950 3K lens looks like it just came off of the assembly line. Perhaps I am overly cautious but I suspect that the availability of fake 3K lenses far exceeds the availability of real 3K lenses.

Besides, I am a user far more than a collector. I already have Zeiss Jena pre-war uncoated 1.5/50 and 2.0/50 Sonnars as well as Zeiss Opton T coated 1.5/50 and 2.0/50 Sonnars. I believe I am already covered in this area without chasing after 3K Jupiters.

[ADDCollector]

I speak Russian, but I do recognize that "30PKNÑ".

It's usually in cursive script on a camera. (The English translation is "Zorki")

[iangreenhalgh1]

I have a 1952 J8 and am happy with that, it cost me very little in superb condition and at least I know it's not a fake. I bet a lot of early J8s have been turned into fake ZKs.

Always amuses me when someone gets an early 1950s Russian Jupiter and finds it to be a great performer, then says 'it is probably made from captured German glass' to explain this performance.

Seeing as I own a whole raft of early Jupiters as well as several Zeiss originals, both pre and post war, I can safely say, the early Russian production is every bit as good in many instances as what Zeiss were producing.

[Gardener]

The Russians did not just take glass and machinery, quite a few Germans were taken too and stayed in Russia at least until the early fifities.

[alex ph]

For my personal use, I never chased fo a ZK. After having seen the prices not only internationally but in Russia itself, I said to myself: "OK, a pure collector item, doesn't make big sense." I am really happy with various versions of later J-8 ready for really cheap. Maybe I lose 15% of the IQ. Maybe 50% (even though I doubt the latest). As long as I experiment with lenses for pleasure and have not even dared to sell exceeding items, there is a short list of lenses I just avoid as they are remarkably high in price, like Leitz (except the still accessible Colorpan).

Gardener, as for your short story of ebay wars, I think that it is not the case of ZK, since a very long time. Its rarity is a perfectly known fact. Once more, in Russian forums and markets too. I presume that the second hand market for this lens is passed to a stage of the third hand market, i.e. almost all the lenses came or come to the hands of experts and professionals who have been reselling them for years. Except of some really rare cases, like this one.

And here I should admit that even if someone took an effert to fake a ZK from a J-8, that was a great job for nothing. To sell it for 12.50, under a flimsy unrecognazable name, after all the efforts of faking, what profit that could bring? I would turn back to my primary idea that the seller was just unaware of the lens' collector status. Long live such occasions that still happen!