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jamaeolus
Joined: 19 Mar 2014 Posts: 2913 Location: Eugene
Expire: 2015-08-20
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:34 pm Post subject: Septon separation anxiety. |
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jamaeolus wrote:
I recently acquired a voigtlander septon 50mm f2 in remarkably good shape. I know most of the septons extant suffer from separtion. My is not (yet) afflicted. I am hoping to not have it occur. Does anyone know of techniques for preventing it? I normally keep all my lenses in a hard case with moisture absorption packets. _________________ photos are moments frozen in time |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10463 Location: California
Expire: 2021-06-22
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
I'm guessing also keep it cool. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony A7Rii, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Lenses:
Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200
Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300
Macro-Takumar 1:4/50
Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm
Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element),
Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17
Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500
Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100
Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100
SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
Other lenses:
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Gerald wrote:
Yes, keep cool, do not suffer in advance.
A 50 year old lens that has not suffered from separation until now, will be perfect for the next 50 years. _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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scsambrook
Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 2167 Location: Glasgow Scotland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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scsambrook wrote:
I think separation is most often the result of a sharp knock to the lens. Sustained vibration can also give the same problem. Having said that, flaws in the original balsaming process can cause unpredictable "spontaneous" failure many years after manufacture. (Sorry, Gerald!) The appearance of the tell-tale "Newton's Rings" doesn't necessarily mean that results will be greatly affected - if at all - but it does affect value, so best to treat lenses with some care. _________________ Stephen
Equipment: Pentax DSLR for casual shooting, Lumix G1 and Fuji XE-1 for playing with old lenses, and Leica M8 because I still like the optical rangefinder system. |
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015 Posts: 1658
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
As you can see, the scheme is the same of the Planar 80/2,8 for Hasselblad
http://www.der-klinterklater.de/grafiken/septon_k.gif
So, you can see that the separation only can exist in 3° and 4° elements (3° group) or in 5° and 6° elements (5° group). |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7548 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
I have a one with excellent glass too without separation. I keep it in dry cabin all the time. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
I'd guess dry environment on long term hurts such lens. But you can choose your menace then: fungus or separation . _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
It would be cool if some member of this forum would specialize in elements gluing process offering "cheap" service. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 Posts: 1445 Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
It would be cool if some member of this forum would specialize in elements gluing process offering "cheap" service. |
I can't remember which episode, but the guys on the Film Photography podcast were talking about someone's success in curing his separation problem by putting the element in the oven on a low temp.
I have no knowledge other than the above hearsay. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Sciolist wrote: |
Pancolart wrote: |
It would be cool if some member of this forum would specialize in elements gluing process offering "cheap" service. |
I can't remember which episode, but the guys on the Film Photography podcast were talking about someone's success in curing his separation problem by putting the element in the oven on a low temp.
I have no knowledge other than the above hearsay. |
I am sure there is some chance it works but doing it with expensive Septon huh, risky. Quite high temperature would need to be reached and success would depend also if elements are pressed together. They can easily crack so margin for error is very thin. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 Posts: 1445 Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
Sciolist wrote: |
Pancolart wrote: |
It would be cool if some member of this forum would specialize in elements gluing process offering "cheap" service. |
I can't remember which episode, but the guys on the Film Photography podcast were talking about someone's success in curing his separation problem by putting the element in the oven on a low temp.
I have no knowledge other than the above hearsay. |
I am sure there is some chance it works but doing it with expensive Septon huh, risky. Quite high temperature would need to be reached and success would depend also if elements are pressed together. They can easily crack so margin for error is very thin. |
Are you familiar with this, Pancolart? -
Bond Failures: Causes and Remedies, by Summers Optical
http://web.archive.org/web/20070220153603/http://www.emsdiasum.com/summers/optical/cements/manual/manual.html |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Very informative, thanks for the link! _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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