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Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 factory-make variations?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 factory-make variations? Reply with quote

hi guys, 1 more concern Question

is't known that which, KMZ, Valdai or MMZ-Belomo make has more consistent quality control or better performance? (coating? overall sharpness?)

thanks guys Smile

hi guys, I opened a thread not long ago asking for recommendation for 50mm-range prime & decided to go for the SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4 with the Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 in 2nd priority

it turns out that the SMC Tak. is so much rarer than I expected it to be Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad on the other hand the Helios 44-2 is much much more common & much much cheaper Smile

can anyone please point out the difference in bokeh (I already roughly knew about their sharpness) between the SMC Tak @ f/2 & the Helios 44-2 wide-opened? if I can get the chance to see samples it would be perfect! (I couldn't find any in google Sad )

thanks a lot in advance Smile Smile Smile Smile


Last edited by ashy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:45 am; edited 4 times in total


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Helios-44-2 is based on the Carl Zeiss Jena 58mm f/2 Biotar, so both are famous for the "swirly bokeh". The 50mm f/1.4 Takumar is much more "normal" in that regard.

More on the Helios-44-2 bokeh: http://www.flickr.com/groups/bokeh_/discuss/72157594194993103/

On this forum:
http://forum.mflenses.com/biotar-2-58-vs-helios-44-vs-smc-takumar-1-8-55-t15766,highlight,biotar.html

Oh yes, it was not that hard... Just enter "Helios-44-2 bokeh" into Google's search field and presto! Wink


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of my Helios samples:
http://forum.mflenses.com/yet-another-helios-thread-t19191.html


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Bokeh: SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4 vs. Helios 44-2 55mm f/2 Reply with quote

ashy wrote:
hi guys, I opened a thread not long ago asking for recommendation for 50mm-range prime & decided to go for the SMC Takumar 50mm f/1.4 with the Helios 44-2 55mm f/2 in 2nd priority

it turns out that the SMC Tak. is so much rarer than I expected it to be Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad on the other hand the Helios 44-2 is much much more common & much much cheaper Smile

can anyone please point out the difference in bokeh (I already roughly knew about their sharpness) between the SMC Tak @ f/2 & the Helios 44-2 wide-opened? if I can get the chance to see samples it would be perfect! (I couldn't find any in google Sad )

thanks a lot in advance Smile Smile Smile Smile


Both good in the own places.

I will tell you the same answer that lot of members told me when I asked a similar question here: Get Both!!

The one that you can catch first, do it.

And that was a very good advice for my. I hope that it serves to you too.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite to be a different scenarium, here there are two exemples.

Tak 50mm f1.4




Helios 44M-4 58mm f2.0



Last edited by FernandoB12 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks guys for the input Razz
I lurked around & saw some members who actually own both lenses, is anyone kind enough to do a bokeh test @ f/2 both? I know wide-opened both will be prone to bright-edge-OOF-highlight but I can't help to wonder about how does the SMC Tak @ f/2 compare to the Helios 44-2 f/2 Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes thanks again!

EDIT: thanks FernandoB12


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I just throw another into the mix... The Pentax SMC 55 1.8 can usually be found for a lot cheaper than the SMC 50 1.4 and IMO it is a wonderful option.

I really like all three of these lenses, with the Helios 44M riding on the camera more than the others. And you can not go wrong with any of them. The each have their own look.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an example of my Helios 44 2



PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks again for the input, actually I'm looking for >8-aperture-blades ones, hence the concern over bokeh rendering Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there is a difference between 8-bladed 44-2/44-3 and 13-bladed 44-1. The blades on 44-2 and 44-3 are quite round, so the iris shape is more rounded than on 10-bladed Biotar 58/2.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 44M (plain M) has 8 blades, too, and makes nice looking bokeh, I like the A/M switch, too.

Here's a good bokeh sample:



PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both lenses produces great bokeh, but takumar is sharper and produces better colors. Helios has its charm in special creamy bokeh. But since they are almost the same focal lenght I use mostly takumar.

I made some comparison images of both lenses on same subject, both are at f2

takumar:


helios:


www.tilensepic.com/msn/takumar50_14.JPG
www.tilensepic.com/msn/helios_44_2.JPG

*ok, so images are not working nor links to my server, any alternative?


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the 55mm Tak. Very sharp. The Pentacon 50 is next sharpest but often has a slow/stuck iris. Another option is the 50mm Meritar. It's an old preset available in Exakta & M42 mounts. Not fast at F2.9, but very different than the others.

Last edited by martinsmith99 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

egidio wrote:
Both lenses produces great bokeh, but takumar is sharper and produces better colors. Helios has its charm in special creamy bokeh. But since they are almost the same focal lenght I use mostly takumar.

I made some comparison images of both lenses on same subject, both are at f2

takumar:


helios:


www.tilensepic.com/msn/takumar50_14.JPG
www.tilensepic.com/msn/helios_44_2.JPG

*ok, so images are not working nor links to my server, any alternative?

Thanks for the input. But as for the Helios, at least 44-2 was produced for 20 years and in 3 factories. The coating was different in different factories and it changed in time, too. So each model has specific color tint...


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

egidio wrote:
Both lenses produces great bokeh, but takumar is sharper and produces better colors. Helios has its charm in special creamy bokeh. But since they are almost the same focal lenght I use mostly takumar.


Strangely enough, I owned both and favor the Helios.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

which helios 40-2 do you prefer opticaly? Maybe I should try anther one? There's a lot of old really cheap Zenits on our "local ebay" with those lenses.

I tested super takumar 50, helios 55 and canon 24-70L in studio at f11-f16, and all were almost the same.

Helios had little washed out colors, 24-70L had a lot of chromatic aberrations but great colors, takumar was awesome with zero CA


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

martinsmith99 wrote:
I have the 55mm Tak. Very sharp. The Pentacon 50 is next sharpest but often has a slow/stuck iris. Another option is the 50mm Meritar. It's an old preset available in Exakta & M42 mounts. Not fast at F2.9, but very different than the others.


ermm why does everyone pass over the Meyer Oreston (pentacon).


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Helioses ( is that indeed the plural?) can be bought so cheaply that the sensible plan must be to buy one and experiment with it. Add whatever else you fancy later ... but be sure to get a Domiplan Smile


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scsambrook wrote:
The Helioses ( is that indeed the plural?) can be bought so cheaply that the sensible plan must be to buy one and experiment with it. Add whatever else you fancy later ... but be sure to get a Domiplan Smile


Domiplans are now gifts in cornflake packets.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't really judge fairly, being new to this all. However the Helios 44M was one reason for me to go get a M42 Adapter and hunt for these lenses. The bokeh was so unique that I just had to have it !

Here's a link to my photo's in the Digital section, maybe it can help. On the other hand, price wise it wouldn't even hurt having both I guess Wink.

Great Afternoon with the Helios.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excalibur wrote:
martinsmith99 wrote:
I have the 55mm Tak. Very sharp. The Pentacon 50 is next sharpest but often has a slow/stuck iris. Another option is the 50mm Meritar. It's an old preset available in Exakta & M42 mounts. Not fast at F2.9, but very different than the others.


ermm why does everyone pass over the Meyer Oreston (pentacon).


+1

It's very easy to dissamble and clean or repair blades and aperture mechanism.

Takumar - pancolar - pentacon. For me not best 50 mm in M42.

I have S-M-C tak 1,4/50, pancolar 1,8/50, pentacon MC 1,8/50 and Helios 44-3.

The two first are awesome.The pentacon very good.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

egidio wrote:
Both lenses produces great bokeh, but takumar is sharper and produces better colors. Helios has its charm in special creamy bokeh. But since they are almost the same focal lenght I use mostly takumar.

I made some comparison images of both lenses on same subject, both are at f2

takumar:
http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20099/1851_takumar50_14_1.jpg

helios:
http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20099/1851_helios_44_2_1.jpg

www.tilensepic.com/msn/takumar50_14.JPG
www.tilensepic.com/msn/helios_44_2.JPG

*ok, so images are not working nor links to my server, any alternative?

thanks a lot for the comparison shots! is that Super Takumar (6 blades) or S-M-C/SMC Takumar (8 blades)? thanks again Smile


PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:41 am    Post subject: variations Reply with quote

hi guys, 1 more concern Question

is't known that which, KMZ, Valdai or MMZ-Belomo make has more consistent quality control or better performance? (coating? overall sharpness?)

thanks guys Smile


PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd prefer MMZ+KMZ over JOV. According to my experience 0xx/00x 44-2 made by KMZ are very good optically - all of the "zero" copies I had in my hands had uniformly sharp edges (not a standard on common versions). However, you can buy 3-5 fo them and keep the best one - it's easier than to hunt for a zero model.

Coating only affects color tint, all of them are single coated - 44-2 Helios lenses are cold or neutral, while original Biotars are warm.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer oldest one as possible with M39 screw.