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The best projector lenses?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: The best projector lenses? Reply with quote

What are the creme de la creme among projector lenses?

I've read a lot of positives about the Leitz Colorplan 2.5/90, what about the other Leitz - Hektors, Elmarons etc.

Schneider AV-Xenotar 2.4/90?

Zeiss P-Sonnar T* 2.5/90?

What about longer ones, 150mm and up?

The Kodak AV Retinars are common, are they any good?


PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I researched that a while ago, there was no lens that could compete with the Leitz COLORPLAN 2.5/90mm, so I bought that lens and still have it today. Excellent quality, bright and sharp image corner to corner.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's good to know. I wonder what the image circle is?


PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: The best projector lenses? Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:


.....
Schneider AV-Xenotar 2.4/90?

Zeiss P-Sonnar T* 2.5/90?

.........




Very interesting opinions about these lenses. Has anyone tried? Does anyone have any samples?


PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: The best projector lenses? Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
What are the creme de la creme among projector lenses?
...


With your question regarding the image circle - do you want to use it as taking lens - for medium format?


PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, medium and large format.

The Hektor-P 2.5/150 covers 5x7 with room for movements, here it is shot on 8x10 by Mkillmer:



So it looks like the Hektors are quite wide angle, I'd guess that 150mm is covering around 70-75 degrees, which would be an image circle of roughly 230-240mm, 8x10's diagonal is 312mm.

If the Colorplan 2.5/90 will cover 6x9 then it will be very interesting to try out, especially for portraits. 6x9 requires an image circle of around 108mm.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:43 am    Post subject: p-planar Reply with quote

My zeiss 90\2,5 for the Leica CA2500 is called P-Planar. I prefer it to the old Colorplan. Never got hold of the second version Colorplan, so that may possibly be better. The old Kodachromes and Velvia slides seem OK projected to about 6foot across.

I vaguely recall, maybe according to one of E.Puts' writings, that the Clorplan 90 was an Elmarit 90.

p.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the AV Xenotar 2.4/90 - good but nothing special. I had a Docter Wetzlar 90/2.8 plastic lens which was a tad better, the Xenotar might have been slightly faulty though.

I guess the younger Leitz 90/2.5 is better than AV Xenotar 90/2.4, I've never had a Leitz projection lens though.

paulhofseth wrote:

I vaguely recall, maybe according to one of E.Puts' writings, that the Clorplan 90 was an Elmarit 90.


I doubt that because Elmarit is 90/2.8 while Colorplan is 90/2.5.
There's a very good (better than old Elmarit) Summarit-M 90/2.5 though but much younger than Colorplan 90/2.5 so I also doubt that they are the same.


Last edited by ForenSeil on Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Yes, medium and large format.
...


So I guess a lot of "modern" film projector lenses will not work.
The Schneider Kreuznach Super Cinelux 37.5 and 80mm have a much too small image circle illuminated, a bit more than 43mm. The Isco Ultra Star 38mm has less than 43mm illuminated image circle. Visionar 65mm and 71mm lenses have ~50mm illuminated.

Some of the old triplet design slide projection lenses have a very large illuminated image circle - probably even for 8x10inch. I have here one wich illuminates a sheet of DIN A4 paper - Rollei 150mm/2.8. But only without the original housing. And most likely only with a small center area with good IQ, like ~80mm for medium format projector - but this could work for the image you show.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting info, cheers.

The Colorplan is close to the Elmarit:



PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian, please give credit if you post such stuff or mention the copyright holder.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite right Klaus, my apologies, I hadn't had my morning coffee so overlooked that.

The image is from this article by Marco Cavina:

http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_fotografici/Leitz_Colorplan_90_Germany_Portugal/00_pag.htm


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both the 120/2.8 and 150/2.8 Elmarons and tested them. They both illuminate the 6x9 cm ground glass quite uniformly.
On APS-C they are a little soft and the contrast is a little low for my taste but the bokeh is creamy and pleasant.
Stopped down with a cardboard opening they are much better.
On 6x9 cm, with a contrast film, they look sharp enough. I think they both could make nice portrait/close up lenses on 6x9cm.

Some time ago I have read on a LF forum that the 135mm Hektor for the Visoflex system was in fact an old LF design and that it covers well 4"x 5".
As I have an old Hektor 135mm (not the projection version), I tested it on 6x9 cm and it covers well that format.

The old Hermagis Cinema Petzvals with a focal length greater then 100mm are covering well 6x9 cm and are very nice on this format.
I have few of them and finally I've chosen to cut the 125 mm one and mount it in a Copal#1 shutter as a portrait/close up lens on 6X9.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thankyou Dan, that's precisely the sort of info I need to know.

I would love a Petzval, I have 5 and 5.5 inch Kershaw projector lenses that are Petzvals. I have been thinking of cutting one and mounting it in an Alphax #3, but i need to find someone with a lathe who could cut the threads for me.

I'd love to see you shutter mounted one if you could share some pics.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what you can buy Smile they are not very common, I didn't find any crap yet.


PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an interesting blog about someone using a Leitz Dimaron 2.8/150 on a 4x5 Speed Graphic:

http://lotophotos.com/sg_leitz/

I couldn't find any info on the Dimaron, I'm guessing it's an older lens,anyone know anything about it?


PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I'd love to see you shutter mounted one if you could share some pics.

Of course Ian.
That's how it looks like:


And mounted on my Techika:


On adapting the Hermagis Petzval to the Copal#1 shutter I followed the next steps:
- I counted the middle of the distance between the front and back lens groups as as the position were the diaphragm should be;
- considering front-to-iris and back-to-iris standard Copal#1 distances I could design the adapter and count the position and dimension of the cut on the barrel;
- I made the adapters mother-thread and the barrel father-thread with ~1mm space for fine tuning on both front and back adapters;
- I screwed the adapters on the front and back of the Copal shutter, I cemented the barrels threads with a slow hardening metal cement and screwed them in the adapters, I fine-tuned the front&back-to-iris and the entire dimension of the lens to match its initial dimension and let the cement to harden;
- I added the shade thread (and a back thread just in case). This is very useful because the old, uncoated Petzval is very prone to flare.

And that is how the bulky Elmaron 150 mm. looks front-mounted on my Techika:


If you consider the Elmarons for front-mounting on a shutter you should cut the rear of the lens barrel in order to avoid vignetting.


Last edited by dan_ on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:51 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks Dan.

I looked at my Kershaw 5 inch Petzval and the barrel is around 49mm diameter. I could cut it, that's no problem, and I have an Alphax #3 with 45mm treads front and back that it would work nicely with, my problem is I have no way to make the adapters, so I will have to find someone who can make them for me, which could be an expensive proposition.

I shall have to find someone with a precision lathe who can make threaded adapters without charging me too much as my budget is very small. I also have several other lenses I need adapters for to front mount on my Compur electronic #3.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the creme de la creme among projector lenses?


If you count the Oscars for technical achievement (3), then the SK Cinelux series (the gold ones) take the spoils

They are a flat field variant (Planar) of the Xenon Double Gauss formula

I have them all and can vouch for their quality


PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't made much progress with this project. I did buy a Leitz Hektor-P 2.8/85 thinking it would be a Hektor type. After taking it apart was dismayed to discover it was just a plain old 3/3 triplet. Sad


PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnBar wrote:
What are the creme de la creme among projector lenses?


If you count the Oscars for technical achievement (3), then the SK Cinelux series (the gold ones) take the spoils

They are a flat field variant (Planar) of the Xenon Double Gauss formula

I have them all and can vouch for their quality


Thanks John, I was wondering about those as they are very highly rated by Movie Operators (sharp, high contrast, flat field).

I have a few which I have planned on converting, yet haven't found much time to do so...


PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is best to start adding to the collection as prices are steadily rising, the hardest to find in the Cinelux series is the 2/24mm.

Also the IMAX lenses are very desirable and are designated with 35mm/70mm written on the side.

I have a DIY Guide in production, which will show how to make an interchangeable mount system for NEX, M43 and EOS_M at modest cost for the complete range of Cinelux, Older Cine Xenon and ISCO Projection Lenses, this is a teaser below..



PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well John, as you haven't really invented helicods in different sizes, that little bit of needed "engineering" I can manage Wink


PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many helicoids in different sizes would be an expensive, over engineered approach. My system uses just one helicoid for all the lenses. Smile


PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes of course and different size insets to match the individual lens.