Tokina 200/3.5 X three

[casualcollector]

Three versions of the 200mm f3.5 lens. From left to right; Sears Roebuck fixed mount, first type Soligor T4, second type Soligor T4.







First and second type Soligor. Length reduced. Filter size reduced from 67mm to 62mm. Tripod mount deleted.

Luis. I've been able to find out comparatively little about these lenses. Do you know a date when these first came to market as fixed mount then T4? The whole line is very similar to Mamiya Sekor TL-DTL lenses. Did Tokina contract manufacture to Mamiya? Was Tokina a brand used by Mamiya for their aftermarket lenses?

Bill

[Nesster]

Thank you for posting these... my Vivitar is much like the first two, it is also a T4 mount... I did a little thing on the T4/TX mounts that I have, in case you missed it:
http://forum.mflenses.com/t4-and-tx-mounts-compared-t9895.html


Here's my Viv:

(large: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3019/2789407709_329d94a49d_b.jpg)

The color scheme is different and the focus ring has a different finish, is about all... I'm curious about these as well!

[casualcollector]

I see yours does not have a slide out lens hood. It must be an earlier version than mine. If you look closely at my photos you can see that the Sears lens has no lens hood but that the two Soligors do. Must have been a change made fairly early in production. If there is a clue to manufacturer and date in the Soligor serial numbers, I have yet to find the key to it.

Bill

[estudleon]

[quote="casualcollector"]Luis. I've been able to find out comparatively little about these lenses. Do you know a date when these first came to market as fixed mount then T4? The whole line is very similar to Mamiya Sekor TL-DTL lenses. Did Tokina contract manufacture to Mamiya? Was Tokina a brand used by Mamiya for their aftermarket lenses?Bill[/quote]

I haven't the answer. Tomioka did lenses for mamiya, and mamiya did lenses for rolleiflex.

But about the mamiya TL-DTL lenses (I have 135/2,8 and is very similar to the vivitar of Nesster), who did them?


Rino.

[Nesster]

Aha... I have a Vivitar 200 3.5 in Konica mount that has the sliding shade, but the serial number on that one starts with 28, which would make it a Komine. It is missing the tripod bushing as well, more like the smaller version of the 200. And this one focuses down to 6 feet or less than 2 meters. 62mm filter size.

[luisalegria]

Nice work Bill !

The second, smaller version is very interesting. I don't believe I've ever seen it anywhere for sale, though I may have missed it as I wouldn't have realized what I was seeing.

I believe that almost all the lenses in the Mamiya TL/DTL series were Tokinas, save for the 50-55mm normals and the 60mm macro, which were, I think, almost all Tomiokas.

This fellow has the lineup, and it looks just like the Tokina/Vivitar/Soligor/Ricoh/Sears stuff -

http://freenet-homepage.de/stauber/mamiya-nc/m42_lenses.htm

The only exception is the 400mm/6.3, which is actually a preset, not an automatic, but even this could be a Tokina as it looks just like an earlier Tokina preset series.

Note that he has three versions of the 200mm, one is the big one, one of them may be like your Soligor, and there is a later even slimmer one with a 58mm filter size.

I think the series started coming out in 1968 for Mamiya and Yashica, as the Mamiya TL's and DTL's came out in 1967-68, and was introduced by Vivitar and Soligor in T4 from 1970-73. Some of these - 28, 135, 200, 300, 90-230 - were for sale as late as 1976-1977 by Sears, according to a catalog I've seen.

These fellows - http://www.ihagee.org/ have a very interesting list, for Exakta mount lenses, but they also covered all the interchangable types. Get the "Exakta Lens List 2289 Items"

All the T4's are listed as "+1967" which means "after 1967"

[Olivier]

Hello Bill, Hello Luis.

It seems I got a fourth version.
Here is my Soligor 200mm f3.5. The lens diameter is 62 but the lens seems longer than the later one shown by Bill, and it is less large than the one shown by Luis. So...???

Here is its number : l7l026l5

Just wondering : what do the red scale numbers mean ? On mine they are between 3.5 and 11. On the later one of Bill, they are between 3.5 and infinity.

and here he comes :

[Olivier]

Somes samples with the soligor 200mm 4th version.
All handheld. Cloudy sky, poor light. Windy...

At f3.5 :


At f11 :



and a motorbike :

[luisalegria]

Hi Olivier,

This one may not be a Tokina, possibly. Its a fixed mount.

I don't remember seeing this type. Soligor also seems to have sold different products in different markets.

It seems quite nice !

[Olivier]

[Nesster]

You mean that red 11 and the focus line up the barrel? I'd use that if I were shooting infra red.

The styling on your lens looks a lot like my T4 105 Soligor, except of course for the T4 vs fixed mount bit. But then my 105 looks very much like the second version of the 200 in the op.

[luisalegria]

Hi Olivier,

I meant "fixed mount" as opposed to "interchangable mount" like the T4.

Yours is of course an auto lens with M-F switch.

What red numbers ? The infrared infinity focus marks ?

[Olivier]

[casualcollector]

Olivier, Luis,

I'm very tempted to call it a Tokina. The aperture control ring is nearly identical in shape to my T4 type 2. I think that it may be the type 1 slimmed down for a 62mm filter with the tripod collar eliminated. That would make it an intermediate version. Thanks for bringing it to the forum Olivier.

Bill

PS; Note that the distance scale engraving and IR index are like the type 1.

I'll bet we find one bearing the Miranda label from the Auto Sensorex period!

[Olivier]

[luisalegria]

Hi Olivier,

The problem with Soligor and Vivitar is that they were very large distributors. They could make arrangements with their manufacturers to make big style changes to make their products look uniform.

So things like the engraving of letters, decoration or knurling of grips and rings, colors, etc. could all be the same or very similar even if the manufacturer is different.

Tokina was a big source for both Vivitar and Soligor around 1970, maybe even the biggest supplier, but not the only one.

I called your 400/6.3 a Tokina because the same lens was sold as a Vivitar with T4 and the "37...." serial number. And Soligor also sold it with a T4, I have one. All T4's were Tokinas, and the '37..." Vivitar serial number is also supposed to be a designation for Tokina. So that seems like a certain identification.

I'm not sure about this one. There are several Tokina 200/3.5 lenses in this period, and many others also.

[luisalegria]

Hi Bill, Olivier,

I was looking again at the distance scale on the "Type 1" Soligor. It seems identical to Oliviers lens.

So now I am more likely to agree that this is a Tokina, an intermediate style between "Type 1" and "Type 2".

It seems to me that this identical scale is not just a matter of style. A different manufacturers lens would have a different helical, a different diameter of grip, etc. It is hard to copy precisely such a detail as the same spacing of focus marks if it isn't in truth the same lens.

[Olivier]

[Olivier]

Well, well.

I didn't know that Soligor was a german company and still exists.
http://www.soligor.de/src/products_list.php?hp=2

An interesting thing I noticed when I looked at their filters. Their boxes are exactly the same as my Holya filters. And when I look at my Hoya Filters, behind the box I read "Tokina Co., Ltd. Made in Japan".

I'll try to send them an e-mail to ask about my Soligor.

Olivier

[casualcollector]

Hi Olivier,

Soligor GMBH started as the European subsidiary of Allied Impex Corp. the American company that owned the Soligor trademark. They are the only branch left of what once was a wide ranging business. A.I.C. succumbed to poor management during the 1980s. Don't know if they'll have much knowledge of the company istory back in the 60s/70s when these lenses were made.

Fonts used in the engraving of the name ring could vary among production runs of similar lenses. Different suppliers mmay have been used or an operator may have overlooked resetting the engraving equipment for the desired font. There is some consistency by maker but it can vary.

Tokina and Hoya have a history of close relationships. Hoya was Japan's largest producer of optical glass. They were also the largest producer of filters in Japan. Both camera manufacturers and independent producers bought glass and filters from Hoya. For a while Hoya branded lenses were distributed in the US. I think they were Tokina made lenses with some stylistic changes. Today Tokina, Hoya and Kenko are partnered or jointly owned and known as THK Corporation.

Learning who made all these aftermarket lenses is quite a task. It involves some detective work and deductive reasoning. Luis has done an exemplary job of ferretting out some of this information.

Bill

[Krisgage]

My Vivitar 200mm was made by Tokina

[casualcollector]

As Luis pointed out, Soligor and Vivitar were large volume buyers of Tokina lenses. As such, they could specify some stylistic differences. I've edited images of Krisgage's and my 200mm T4s to illustrate the differences and similarities of one product for two customers.

[casualcollector]

I Think I stumbled onto another variation of Olivier's lens here!

Click here to see on Ebay

Perhaps Nikon F mount.

Bill

[cledry]

That Sear 200mm/3.5 looks almost identical to my Soligor 200mm/3.5, so perhaps there is a fifth version. The knurling is different and the feet meters markings are exchanged.

[kryss]

Hi everybody I am a new subscriber and avid photographer. I have a vivitar 200mm 3.5, 8 blade but have just bought a 200mm 3,5, 18 blade and would like to know if anyone has any info on this lens? It is in Mint condition and does not appear to have been used much,M42 mount. Thanks.