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Takumar 50mm f/4.0 macro-lens 1:1 (double helicoid)
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:28 am    Post subject: Takumar 50mm f/4.0 macro-lens 1:1 (double helicoid) Reply with quote

I have been offered a Takumar 50mm macro-lens, the rarer 1:1 version with double helicoid, not the later 1:2 version.

So this one: http://allphotolenses.com/lenses/item/c_4176.html and not this one: http://allphotolenses.com/lenses/item/c_725.html

I have a few questions on this lens.

Lens seems in very good condition, I tried the focus ring and it has the right feel and smoothness/resistance. Both caps are included, and the leather storage case. The seller is a serious hobby photographer, I just bought 2 other items from him, which were in great condition and visibly very well maintained.

What would be a fair price?

There are just a few offers on ebay, and of course the asking price of copies that are not sold do not necessarily reflect a fair value. Also, condition is sometimes difficult to assess on online ads.

Regarding performance, how would you rate it, compared to e.g. a Volna-9 50mm f/2.8 and a Leica Marco-Elmarit-R 60 2.8? (the latter also achieves 1:1 with the included extension ring)


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a great lens, get it if the price is right. Mine was about 50 EUR buy it now price, it felt kind of low so I clicked buy instantly.

I have no experience with the other lenses you mention. But I prefer it over my FD, Hexanon and Rokkor macros.

It has one weakness on my Sony a7, close to 1:1 there is a decrease in contrast due to some kind of flare issue. It could camera model specific.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! 50 euro is a great price for any good macro lens, and for this one, it is a super deal!

If the asking price was that low, I would not have posted my question Smile Seller currently thinks of $200.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sjak wrote:
Thanks! 50 euro is a great price for any good macro lens, and for this one, it is a super deal!

If the asking price was that low, I would not have posted my question Smile Seller currently thinks of $200.


Agreed

I would probably jump at US$100, or anything south of that figure, for a 1:1 lens in nice shape.

What you must hope and search for is an owner/seller unaware of the marked difference in price between the two versions, and who through ignorance prices a 1:1 lens at the lower price most often seen with the 1:2 lenses.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input, highly appreciated. The seller is very well aware of what he has, so 100 is not going to happen this time.

On the other hand, since it is a local sale, I can test the lens before deciding to buy; this is also worth something. If it comes near the Leica 60 2.8 macro, then I am willing to compromise a bit pricewise, as the Takumar is so much lighter and more compact, and no "ebay gambling".


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some macros you can pick up for cheaper than 50 Euros, like the Canon FL and FD 50mm f/3.5 macro. At US eBay, I stopped counting when I reached 10 that were for sale for $50 or less. And it's a great lens too. It wasn't all that long ago that you could pick up 55mm f/3.5 Micro-Nikkors for $50 or less. Those days seem to have passed, though. Cheapest 55/3.5 Nikkor I could find was about $70. Which is good news for me, since I have three 55/3.5 Micro-Nikkors that I'll be putting up for sale very soon.

Now, that 1:1 Macro-Tak had me intrigued, so I did a search on it. I found about a dozen Pentax Macro-Taks, most of which were SMC lenses, but I found only one that was the early 1:1 Macro-Tak. That particular auction is mis-labeled. The item title refers to it as an SMC Macro, when clearly it is not an SMC lens. It's listed at auction with an opening bid amount of $100, and no bids yet.

It's a much different looking lens from the later design. The late Super Tak and the SMC Tak look the same except for the rear of the lens mount. But this 1:1 model can be easily identified because it is a preset lens, with the two aperture rings. Must be very early to be a preset. Take a look:

Click here to see on Ebay

Most of the other Pentax 50 macros, the majority of which are SMCs, have Buy-It-Now prices around $100 and up. Your seller is seriously out of the money at $200, methinks. You can probably pick up that eBay one at auction for much less than that. For $200, you can usually find a copy of the Kiron-made 100mm f/2.8 1:1 macro, arguably a much more desirable lens.

Also, just as an FYI, Sigma made and/or makes a 50mm f/2.8 Macro, 1:1. Price is typically north of $100 on eBay.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Some macros you can pick up for cheaper than 50 Euros, like the Canon FL and FD 50mm f/3.5 macro.
The problem is that with shipping and duties, a $50 lens is not really that competitive anymore. USPS rates have exploded during the past 10 years, it's ridiculous what they charge nowadays. On the other hand, there's also Japan and Germany Idea

cooltouch wrote:
Also, just as an FYI, Sigma made and/or makes a 50mm f/2.8 Macro, 1:1. Price is typically north of $100 on eBay.
Thanks, good suggestion!

The Takumar is tempting though, there's something special about that double helicoid and that is worth something of course Smile
The added advantage of M42 is that I already have a variety of other accessories in M42 (TC, focal reducer, helicoid adapter, etc etc), which I would need to invest in for another lens mount.


Last edited by Sjak on Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On ebay, go to "Advanced" and check the "Sold" box when you search.
That will list only the items that actually were sold.
Its the best way I know to find market prices.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sjak wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
Some macros you can pick up for cheaper than 50 Euros, like the Canon FL and FD 50mm f/3.5 macro.
The problem is that with shipping and duties, a $50 lens is not really that competitive anymore. USPS rates have exploded during the past 10 years, it's ridiculous what they charge nowadays.


Yeah, I agree. The big explosion happened several (?) years ago. Nothing I can do about it, though. But I do sympathize with my friends outside of the US. Some of the best international shipping prices I've found are from the UK. Thus I will sometimes check UK eBay for items if I can't find them on the US site.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:

Yeah, I agree. The big explosion happened several (?) years ago.
I think around 2008 the (cheap but slow) surface service was axed, as well as the media bag (basically a post bag that could be stuffed to the brim with books) Soon after that, air mail rates got substantial increases year over year. Flat rate boxes disappeared. I remember pretty well, because I had a small trade in car parts and specific car books&service manuals. The increase in shipping rates took away all the fun.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luisalegria wrote:
On ebay, go to "Advanced" and check the "Sold" box when you search.
That will list only the items that actually were sold.
Its the best way I know to find market prices.
Like 1 small thanks, I'm not that much on ebay the past few years, I had forgotten about this option!


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Some macros you can pick up for cheaper than 50 Euros, like the Canon FL and FD 50mm f/3.5 macro. At US eBay, I stopped counting when I reached 10 that were for sale for $50 or less. And it's a great lens too. It wasn't all that long ago that you could pick up 55mm f/3.5 Micro-Nikkors for $50 or less. Those days seem to have passed, though. Cheapest 55/3.5 Nikkor I could find was about $70. Which is good news for me, since I have three 55/3.5 Micro-Nikkors that I'll be putting up for sale very soon.

Now, that 1:1 Macro-Tak had me intrigued, so I did a search on it. I found about a dozen Pentax Macro-Taks, most of which were SMC lenses, but I found only one that was the early 1:1 Macro-Tak. That particular auction is mis-labeled. The item title refers to it as an SMC Macro, when clearly it is not an SMC lens. It's listed at auction with an opening bid amount of $100, and no bids yet.

It's a much different looking lens from the later design. The late Super Tak and the SMC Tak look the same except for the rear of the lens mount. But this 1:1 model can be easily identified because it is a preset lens, with the two aperture rings. Must be very early to be a preset. Take a look:

Click here to see on Ebay

This one looks ok, it could have been cleaned before the auction and it would look more presentable than it is, the front cap is wrong, it should be metal(but at least they included one).
Optically it's about the same as other macro 50's, perhaps a different rendering, but does 1:1 which is uncommon, and is preset, also uncommon.
Quote:


Most of the other Pentax 50 macros, the majority of which are SMCs, have Buy-It-Now prices around $100 and up. Your seller is seriously out of the money at $200, methinks. You can probably pick up that eBay one at auction for much less than that. For $200, you can usually find a copy of the Kiron-made 100mm f/2.8 1:1 macro, arguably a much more desirable lens.

I think Attila is selling a Kiron 105/2.8 1:1 Macro right now. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kiron-105mm-f2-8-Macro-lens-1-1-Pentax-KA-Lester-E-Dine-labelled-excellent/362191736526

Quote:

Also, just as an FYI, Sigma made and/or makes a 50mm f/2.8 Macro, 1:1. Price is typically north of $100 on eBay.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I came to an agreement. This weekend I will go there and test the lens on my camera. If it is up to expectations, I take it home for 150 (recent ebay sales were above 200, except one with an inaccurate description)

The fact that someone invites me into his home and lets me try a lens is worth something to me, and also no shipping and duties involved, so not a terrible deal IMO. And the double helicoid on such a small lens intrigues me, I couldn't get it out of my head Thank You Dog

Of course there is always cheaper etc but a low price is not the only thing in life Very Happy

Thanks everyone for thinking with me Friends


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't sell mine for $200, getting to check it out in person before buying is a great way to buy, bring extra $ just in case he has other jewels he's willing to part with during your visit, which will usually evolve into talking shop(photography), which can be a wonderful way to waste some time.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a great lens, I use mine an my Sony A6000 a lot, and it was just as good my NEX5 and Pentax K10. I think the flare problem might be limited to some of the A7's, not as a problem for that particular lens - more a problem for some types of lenses , or at least that what I'm reading.

I paid £40 for mine which was perfect optically and mechanically but had some paint damage.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
I wouldn't sell mine for $200, getting to check it out in person before buying is a great way to buy, bring extra $ just in case he has other jewels he's willing to part with during your visit, which will usually evolve into talking shop(photography), which can be a wonderful way to waste some time.
Yes, totally agree, it's winter here with boring weather.

Actually I was there yesterday and I came home with a Sigma DP2 (*) a Ricoh 55mm 1.4, and a tripod more or less as a gift. We did't really talk about buying/selling the Takumar (he showed during our conversation but did not put a price on it, and I did not ask) Today I wrote him if he had any other lenses that he would sell, as I was happy with the purchased stuff... and so the Takumar became subject of some haggling Wink


(*) and meanwhile I'm hooked on Sigma-colours, apparently on their ILCs it is possible to mount M42 lenses, so who knows where this will lead...


PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Sigma came out with a FF Mirrorless ILC, I would be seriously interested, even if it was only ISO 100. Paired up with APO lenses.... Divine?