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Need a help with identifying another super intriguing lens
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Need a help with identifying another super intriguing lens Reply with quote

Hello to all forum users here! Recently I got super intriguing lens and I'm very curious to find out - what is this? Hope, that you might help me to identify it)
There is no any information on the lens body - no names, nothing. There is only aperture value marks, from which I can assume, that the maximum aperture of the lens is f2.3. I did some measurements and checkings and found out the the focal length of the lend is between 65 and 75mm. So its 65-75mm f2.3/2.0 lens.
The lens has M42 screw mount and 16 blades iris aperture. Now here is the most interesting part about this unit - this is macro lens, so it can focus up to 10-15cm distance. Also on the full frame sensor the lens is showing some little vignetting in the corners, so it might be made for small film size devices.
I just have no clue - what this lens was made for. It really looks like some cinema lens, but the macro ability of it is just making me wondering and super curious.
Do you have any ideas?
Here is how the lens looks like

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Here you may see the size comparison of the lens with converted to M42 mount OKS1-100-1 100mm

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is some samples from the lens and Sony A7II camera, made on wide open aperture. Zero editing and corrections - just simple conversion from RAW to JPEG in Lightroom and thats it


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a few shots on stopped down aperture (f4.0-f5.6)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice shots from an interesting lens. Seems like a DIY job.

Cheers!

Abbazz


PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abbazz wrote:
Seems like a DIY job.

Cheers!

Abbazz


Thank you, Abbazz! It looks like DIY (at least the lens helicoid looks like not original peace to me), but the lens unit itself looks and feels factory made. So far all my lens collector friends confirms it.
Researches are going on, anyhow)


PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The swirl is very pleasing


PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope this doesn't send you off on a wild goose chase but the photograph looking down the barrel at the blades reminded me very much of looking down my Pentacon f4 200. And the design of the focusing ring is very much in the style of my Carl Zeiss Jena semi-automatic preset biotar.

Clues for thought only. Good luck with the hunt.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, intriguing lens (I participated to that auction Wink )

My first thought is that it is cinema lens. I think the indications are not f-stops, but t-stops. So it should be a f2 lens.
It looks like a planar type (but the curvated plane of field is puzzling me, usualy planar are better on this question). I thought it could be an OKS1-100-1 100/2, size looks similar. Coating looks to be from those years also (70's).

I have a J-25 100mm/2 which is older, but DIY body has the same style : http://pierretizien-photos.blogspot.fr/p/blog-page_17.html


PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y wrote:
The swirl is very pleasing


Friends


PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciolist wrote:
I hope this doesn't send you off on a wild goose chase but the photograph looking down the barrel at the blades reminded me very much of looking down my Pentacon f4 200. And the design of the focusing ring is very much in the style of my Carl Zeiss Jena semi-automatic preset biotar.

Clues for thought only. Good luck with the hunt.


Fortunately this lens has nothing similar with Pentacon lenses in terms of rarity.
Yes, the helicoid looks similar to "Zebra" type Zeiss and some other lenses, but I can't tell for sure yet - is it factory or custom made?


PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:
Yes, intriguing lens (I participated to that auction Wink )

My first thought is that it is cinema lens. I think the indications are not f-stops, but t-stops. So it should be a f2 lens.
It looks like a planar type (but the curvated plane of field is puzzling me, usualy planar are better on this question). I thought it could be an OKS1-100-1 100/2, size looks similar. Coating looks to be from those years also (70's).

I have a J-25 100mm/2 which is older, but DIY body has the same style : http://pierretizien-photos.blogspot.fr/p/blog-page_17.html


Thank you for your opinion and guesses. However, I can easily say that this lens is not from LOMO "army", cause the FL of the lens is clearly between 70 and 75mm (not longer for SURE), so from Russian vintage cinema lenses there is only few options: several variations of OKS 75mm lenses and RO2-2M 75mm f2.0 lens. But non of that lenses has even similar design of the lens unit, non of them has macro ability, non of them has such a vignetting on FF sensor and non of them has such a rendering and image curvature.
I rather thinking about old vintage cinema lens (maybe even prototype) kind of Dalmeyer, Wollensak, Kinoptik or even maybe Macro Plasmat. During next month I'll be able to give it to my lens master, who gonna disassemble the lens to see its optical design. This will give at least some more information and might be helpful the researches.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

olesia2015 wrote:


Thank you for your opinion and guesses. However, I can easily say that this lens is not from LOMO "army", cause the FL of the lens is clearly between 70 and 75mm (not longer for SURE), so from Russian vintage cinema lenses there is only few options: several variations of OKS 75mm lenses and RO2-2M 75mm f2.0 lens. But non of that lenses has even similar design of the lens unit, non of them has macro ability, non of them has such a vignetting on FF sensor and non of them has such a rendering and image curvature.
I rather thinking about old vintage cinema lens (maybe even prototype) kind of Dalmeyer, Wollensak, Kinoptik or even maybe Macro Plasmat. During next month I'll be able to give it to my lens master, who gonna disassemble the lens to see its optical design. This will give at least some more information and might be helpful the researches.


Macro ability is only about the DIY adaptation. It does not say a lot about the original optical block used here. OKS and other lenses for 35mm cine camera start vignetting from 70mm (RO2-2M almost don't vignets, whereas RO3-3M vignets a lot). So I don't think it exclude the OKS/RO theory or other 35mm cine lenses. Exist the OKS9-75-1 75mm/2 which is a petzval design, for exemple. I never seen one, it's only in the documents.

Please tell us about what will say your master after he disassembled it.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:
olesia2015 wrote:


Thank you for your opinion and guesses. However, I can easily say that this lens is not from LOMO "army", cause the FL of the lens is clearly between 70 and 75mm (not longer for SURE), so from Russian vintage cinema lenses there is only few options: several variations of OKS 75mm lenses and RO2-2M 75mm f2.0 lens. But non of that lenses has even similar design of the lens unit, non of them has macro ability, non of them has such a vignetting on FF sensor and non of them has such a rendering and image curvature.
I rather thinking about old vintage cinema lens (maybe even prototype) kind of Dalmeyer, Wollensak, Kinoptik or even maybe Macro Plasmat. During next month I'll be able to give it to my lens master, who gonna disassemble the lens to see its optical design. This will give at least some more information and might be helpful the researches.


Macro ability is only about the DIY adaptation. It does not say a lot about the original optical block used here. OKS and other lenses for 35mm cine camera start vignetting from 70mm (RO2-2M almost don't vignets, whereas RO3-3M vignets a lot). So I don't think it exclude the OKS/RO theory or other 35mm cine lenses. Exist the OKS9-75-1 75mm/2 which is a petzval design, for exemple. I never seen one, it's only in the documents.

Please tell us about what will say your master after he disassembled it.


Yes, you're right regarding macro ability - it could be reached if this helicoid was custom made for this purpose.
Also 75mm RO and OKS lenses, as you clearly mentioned, has suuuuper slight vignetting in the corners on FF sensor. This "beast" vignettes a little stronger, but it also could me an "issue" with this specific helicoid, cause (as you can see from the posted samples) on closest (macro) focusing distance - there is no vignetting at all. And BTW, LOMO and RO lenses, with FL less then 75mm, can't be used on DSLR cameras due to the lack of back focal flange distance.
However, if you will look at the lens unit of this "creature" - it has nothing similar with lens design of the russian vintage cinema lenses. I can easily say it, because I used to have a lot of is and can spot on one with no problem)
Ans, as I said, the rendering of the lens really looks very different to LOMO lenses, so I hope that this lens lying closer to Macro Plasmat family - then to simple LOMO brothers)
I'll definitely let you know about the result of disassembling, after it will be made.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

olesia2015 wrote:

Yes, you're right regarding macro ability - it could be reached if this helicoid was custom made for this purpose.
Also 75mm RO and OKS lenses, as you clearly mentioned, has suuuuper slight vignetting in the corners on FF sensor. This "beast" vignettes a little stronger, but it also could me an "issue" with this specific helicoid, cause (as you can see from the posted samples) on closest (macro) focusing distance - there is no vignetting at all. And BTW, LOMO and RO lenses, with FL less then 75mm, can't be used on DSLR cameras due to the lack of back focal flange distance.
However, if you will look at the lens unit of this "creature" - it has nothing similar with lens design of the russian vintage cinema lenses. I can easily say it, because I used to have a lot of is and can spot on one with no problem)
Ans, as I said, the rendering of the lens really looks very different to LOMO lenses, so I hope that this lens lying closer to Macro Plasmat family - then to simple LOMO brothers)
I'll definitely let you know about the result of disassembling, after it will be made.


About the vigneting, it is normal that vignetting disapear in close focus position. The vignetting is stronger when the lens is closer to infinity (so closer to sensor).
About the look of the lens unit, only you can see, hard to judge, but if you are used to those OKS, then I guess you're right Smile .


PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

olesia2015 wrote:
Sciolist wrote:
I hope this doesn't send you off on a wild goose chase but the photograph looking down the barrel at the blades reminded me very much of looking down my Pentacon f4 200. And the design of the focusing ring is very much in the style of my Carl Zeiss Jena semi-automatic preset biotar.

Clues for thought only. Good luck with the hunt.


Fortunately this lens has nothing similar with Pentacon lenses in terms of rarity.
Yes, the helicoid looks similar to "Zebra" type Zeiss and some other lenses, but I can't tell for sure yet - is it factory or custom made?


In regard to the Pentacon, I was thinking in terms of the diaphragm. In regard to the focusing ring, I was thinking of the knurling, which looks identical in style.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, finally here is the conclusion from my local professional lens master) He was so busy, that was able to take a lens only few weeks ago.

This lens was made on the factory for sure. It looks a little, that it could be some DIY project, but based on the professional conclusion - this is definitely 100% factory product, what was mostly made for inner using. Thats means that it might be a prototype and this unit never been made for sale. Next, this lens has Planar type optical unit with 7/5 optical scheme (7 optical elements in 5 optical groups). True focal length of this lens is 73mm with wide open aperture of f2.3 (as it engraved on the aperture ring), so according to the factory standards it might be 70/75mm f2.0/2.3 lens. Basing on all this information + some extra test results, lens master told me that this 95% Soviet Russian cinema lens, which was made on factory for some specific project.


Last edited by olesia2015 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you link to your ebay auction here, can I ask you to stop using false information in your auction titles? I find it very annoying when this auction comes up in a search for "Angenieux". There is no reason to think it is an Angenieux lens, you claim it to be a Russian lens, not Angenieux, not Wollensak. Likewise the "Kinoptik" in your Lomo lens auction.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for following up!


PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dickb wrote:
Since you link to your ebay auction here, can I ask you to stop using false information in your auction titles? I find it very annoying when this auction comes up in a search for "Angenieux". There is no reason to think it is an Angenieux lens, you claim it to be a Russian lens, not Angenieux, not Wollensak. Likewise the "Kinoptik" in your Lomo lens auction.


Cannot more than agree Dick, it is really annoying this "keyword spamming". Ebay was once was very serious about it, but they don't check this anymore, they simply don't care... Twisted Evil

I removed the ebay listing, we have a seperate section for that AND ONLY FOR MEMBERS WITH 200+ POSTINGS are allowed to post sales ads / auctions there which the author does not fulfil yet.

PS: I'm not impressed by that lens' performance, seen and have much better performing russian lenses Wink