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microscope lens
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: microscope lens Reply with quote
Can I use this lens on a macro bellows?
Thank you.



PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As far as I know you can use that lens at the recommended distance to sensor, that is 160mm or at other distances, but there could be some loss of image quality. IMHO 10X it's a bit to much to begin with.
You'll have to stack to get some usable final results.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
lucca1x wrote:
As far as I know you can use that lens at the recommended distance to sensor, that is 160mm or at other distances, but there could be some loss of image quality. IMHO 10X it's a bit to much to begin with.
You'll have to stack to get some usable final results.


Thank you.
What would be a more usable magnification?


PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is corrected to be used with a cover slip, so using it without would degrade its performance,
further the image size is rather limited, 18-20mm maximum diameter. Why did you ask about
the magnification, as it is written on it: 10x


PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:22 am    Post subject: microscope 10x objective Reply with quote
You can use it on a macro bellows, or use it with an adapter that goes from M42 to REM, they sell them on Ebay. However, it's not Plan (flat field)-Apo (apochromatic) (it's a non-flat-field achromat) so you'll get some colour error. You might also as the other poster said find it only supports clearly a small part of the image sensor so you'll have to crop. You'll be looking at a lot of power, compared to conventional macro lenses but it's worth playing with.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The depth of field of that objective is ~8.8um. It will likely be very sharp in the center, and lose sharpness at the corners of APS-C sensor. The shallow DOF will force you to stack for anything but perfectly flat subjects, and even those may require stacking since the objective is not a flat field type.

Easiest way to attach it is:

Camera --> M42 adapter --> M42 extensions --> M42-RMS adapter --> objective

I like to use the cone-shaped M42-RMS adapters, as they give more lighting flexibility. They also give extension, so not much additional extension is required.

The NA of 0.25 is low enough that working without cover glass is still OK, though you will indeed see a slight degradation especially at the edges of the field. Center should be fine.

I have been working with a company in China that is now making a stacking controller which provides a 4096 step current output. So rather than controlling a stepper motor, this output can be used to drive a speaker voice coil. The reference current is adjustable so you can adjust the absolute range. I have found this system works superbly for fine step focus stacking, giving sub-micron step sizes. This is smaller than is needed for any magnification, so the system has extreme accuracy in the 2-20um step sizes that are typically used from 4x-40x magnifications. With a typical small speaker, total adjustment range of 2mm is possible, with 4096 steps. This adjustment range is perfect for a wide range of applications. Best thing is the controller is fairly cheap (~$50), the control software is free, and you can use an old discarded speaker or a cheap eBay purchase. It's brilliant for adding stacking to an existing system. I love it when an inexpensive solution ends also being the best in class performer.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
It is corrected to be used with a cover slip, so using it without would degrade its performance,
further the image size is rather limited, 18-20mm maximum diameter. Why did you ask about
the magnification, as it is written on it: 10x


Thank you for the reply. I understand the magnification is 10x, I was inquiring if a smaller magnification would
be better or easier to use. Like for instance 4x.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: microscope 10x objective Reply with quote
RichA wrote:
You can use it on a macro bellows, or use it with an adapter that goes from M42 to REM, they sell them on Ebay. However, it's not Plan (flat field)-Apo (apochromatic) (it's a non-flat-field achromat) so you'll get some colour error. You might also as the other poster said find it only supports clearly a small part of the image sensor so you'll have to crop. You'll be looking at a lot of power, compared to conventional macro lenses but it's worth playing with.


Thank you.
I have seen some flat field lenses, I can look them up again.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
uddhava wrote:
kds315* wrote:
It is corrected to be used with a cover slip, so using it without would degrade its performance,
further the image size is rather limited, 18-20mm maximum diameter. Why did you ask about
the magnification, as it is written on it: 10x


Thank you for the reply. I understand the magnification is 10x, I was inquiring if a smaller magnification would
be better or easier to use. Like for instance 4x.


Yes, this woudl be recommendet! BUT look not for Biological ones, rather for METAL microscope lenses, as those are made to be used WITHOUT cover glass, reads usually 160/- (dash stands for no cover glass). Nikon made some really good ones, often used by Stackers! NIKON M PLAN for instance are excellent. (M stands for metal). Look for LWD (long working distance), ELWD (extra long working distance) or SLWD (super long working distance) types, as this gives you better lighting possibilities!! LOMO also made some nice and usually quite cheap to get ones...

Last edited by kds315* on Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
The depth of field of that objective is ~8.8um. It will likely be very sharp in the center, and lose sharpness at the corners of APS-C sensor. The shallow DOF will force you to stack for anything but perfectly flat subjects, and even those may require stacking since the objective is not a flat field type.

Easiest way to attach it is:

Camera --> M42 adapter --> M42 extensions --> M42-RMS adapter --> objective

I like to use the cone-shaped M42-RMS adapters, as they give more lighting flexibility. They also give extension, so not much additional extension is required.

The NA of 0.25 is low enough that working without cover glass is still OK, though you will indeed see a slight degradation especially at the edges of the field. Center should be fine.

I have been working with a company in China that is now making a stacking controller which provides a 4096 step current output. So rather than controlling a stepper motor, this output can be used to drive a speaker voice coil. The reference current is adjustable so you can adjust the absolute range. I have found this system works superbly for fine step focus stacking, giving sub-micron step sizes. This is smaller than is needed for any magnification, so the system has extreme accuracy in the 2-20um step sizes that are typically used from 4x-40x magnifications. With a typical small speaker, total adjustment range of 2mm is possible, with 4096 steps. This adjustment range is perfect for a wide range of applications. Best thing is the controller is fairly cheap (~$50), the control software is free, and you can use an old discarded speaker or a cheap eBay purchase. It's brilliant for adding stacking to an existing system. I love it when an inexpensive solution ends also being the best in class performer.


Interesting, thanks for sharing! My friend here makes a sub-micron stepper STACKMASTER / STACKUNIT with specialy designed LED lighting system (99 color quality), much better than anything else, but cheap is it not (well, finally it is GERMANY made) Wink http://www.stonemaster.eu/products/stackunit

Btw. this is the cone shaped RMS adapter Ray mentioned, designed many years ago by me and BELJAN Manufacturing - of course later stolen err "borrowed" by chinese makers...

http://www.macrolenses.de/ad_detail.php?AdapterNr=13


(first ever prototype RMS to T-mount, also version to M42...)


PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Look at what this guy is doing: https://www.flickr.com/people/-can-/

He has posted diagrams of his setup, like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/-can-/32659259791 and many more.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
uddhava wrote:
kds315* wrote:
It is corrected to be used with a cover slip, so using it without would degrade its performance,
further the image size is rather limited, 18-20mm maximum diameter. Why did you ask about
the magnification, as it is written on it: 10x


Thank you for the reply. I understand the magnification is 10x, I was inquiring if a smaller magnification would
be better or easier to use. Like for instance 4x.


Yes, this woudl be recommendet! BUT look not for Biological ones, rather for METAL microscope lenses, as those are made to be used WITHOUT cover glass, reads usually 160/- (dash stands for no cover glass). Nikon made some really good ones, often used by Stackers! NIKON M PLAN for instance are excellent. (M stands for metal). Look for LWD (long working distance), ELWD (extra long working distance) or SLWD (super long working distance) types, as this gives you better lighting possibilities!! LOMO also made some nice and usually quite cheap to get ones...


I found one Lomo lens marked "MI 11 х 0,25 190 P". Would the MI stand for metal and the P for Plan? Unfortunately it is 11x though.
Those Nikon lenses are out of my range for now......


PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you for all of the information everyone!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
uddhava wrote:
kds315* wrote:
uddhava wrote:
kds315* wrote:
It is corrected to be used with a cover slip, so using it without would degrade its performance,
further the image size is rather limited, 18-20mm maximum diameter. Why did you ask about
the magnification, as it is written on it: 10x


Thank you for the reply. I understand the magnification is 10x, I was inquiring if a smaller magnification would
be better or easier to use. Like for instance 4x.


Yes, this woudl be recommendet! BUT look not for Biological ones, rather for METAL microscope lenses, as those are made to be used WITHOUT cover glass, reads usually 160/- (dash stands for no cover glass). Nikon made some really good ones, often used by Stackers! NIKON M PLAN for instance are excellent. (M stands for metal). Look for LWD (long working distance), ELWD (extra long working distance) or SLWD (super long working distance) types, as this gives you better lighting possibilities!! LOMO also made some nice and usually quite cheap to get ones...




I found one Lomo lens marked "MI 11 х 0,25 190 P". Would the MI stand for metal and the P for Plan? Unfortunately it is 11x though.
Those Nikon lenses are out of my range for now......


Those LOMO objectives could be very good. Many were Carl Zeiss Jena objectives copies. The letters on the objectives are Russian so that they could mean very different things.

According to my limited experience, those lower powered ones of 2-4x are better if used as a macro lens. But there are so many types of objectives, it is hard to conclude which one is best. There are microscope objectives that are designed as photographic lenses such as Zeiss Mikrotar series that are better for taking photo images IMHO.

Here are some examples of 2-4X objectives of various specifications and brands. I guess few people collected those?



PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jewel like objectives. Laugh 1






PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kievuser wrote:
Jewel like objectives. Laugh 1






Beautiful!


PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
By the way, one of the best 10x I've found is an El Cheapo, the old Bausch & Lomb 10x 0.25, like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bausch-Lomb-10x-16mm-025-N-A-microscope-Objective-/322469498231?hash=item4b14ae0d77:g:U30AAOSwImpXpNgn

Here is a pic taken with it compared with the Nikon M10, which is about the best 10x I know:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/961829/good-and-cheap-10x-objective


PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
By the way, one of the best 10x I've found is an El Cheapo, the old Bausch & Lomb 10x 0.25, like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bausch-Lomb-10x-16mm-025-N-A-microscope-Objective-/322469498231?hash=item4b14ae0d77:g:U30AAOSwImpXpNgn

Here is a pic taken with it compared with the Nikon M10, which is about the best 10x I know:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/961829/good-and-cheap-10x-objective


Thank you for the tip. Looks good. Shipping to Hungary is $36. Wink
That's kind of high to ship a little lens.
When I visit the US I will have to see if I can find some good deals.
In the meantime I bought a 4x lens from China.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I bought these two lenses. One arrived just today. It is a Zeiss Apochromat 20/0.65.
However I actually ordered a Lomo Plan 9x0,20 lens. Would the Zeiss lens be useful?
I can see that it does not have much play compared to the 4x lens I bought.
Besides, maybe he meant to send the lens to someone else.
Here they are with an adapter I bought.




PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Both of these are "biological" objectives, and require you use a 0.17mm cover slip for best performance. The 4x probably will work fine without the cover slip, but the relatively high NA Zeiss will need the slip. The Zeiss is also designed to work only in a microscope, using Zeiss eyepieces that do final correction of chromatic aberrations. The Zeiss apochromat is a MUCH more expensive lens than the 9x Lomo you ordered, so it was for sure a mistake on seller's part to ship it instead. Someone is very upset right now having received the Lomo instead of the Zeiss.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
Both of these are "biological" objectives, and require you use a 0.17mm cover slip for best performance. The 4x probably will work fine without the cover slip, but the relatively high NA Zeiss will need the slip. The Zeiss is also designed to work only in a microscope, using Zeiss eyepieces that do final correction of chromatic aberrations. The Zeiss apochromat is a MUCH more expensive lens than the 9x Lomo you ordered, so it was for sure a mistake on seller's part to ship it instead. Someone is very upset right now having received the Lomo instead of the Zeiss.


Thank you for this information. I was thinking that the Zeiss would be much more expensive. I hope the Lomo will still be available.
Will the 9x work without the cover slip?
Any way now I will contact the seller.

By-the-way, I was born in Fullerton, CA in 1955. I noticed the date on the coin of your avatara.
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