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Q on Ultron lenses
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
There's some good info on lens testing and resolution here:

http://www.imx.nl/photo/Film/Film/page35.html


PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
There's some good info on lens testing and resolution here:

http://www.imx.nl/photo/Film/Film/page35.html


Indeed a good article.

Puts states: "The best photographic lenses from Leica can deliver a theoretical resolution of about 450 lp/mm at a 5% contrast. When the limit of 30% is applied, about 250 to 300 lp/mm are possible and indeed in areal projection of test patterns, we can detect this value on the screen."

Therefore I can't understand why you have doubt's about the 165lp/mm figure of the Ultron. It it's clearly stated in the source page that it belongs to the best normal lenses of all times till date. For me it sounds logical.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Because manufacturers like Zeiss did not measure at such low contrast, they measured at 30% contrast, I very much doubt the Ultron is capable of 165lp/mm at 30% contrast.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is there an index of serial numbers by year for the Carl Zeiss July 1968–December 1971 production run (second generation Ultron)? The serial number of interest is a seven digit number starting 7245 which is not congruent with the table at Camera Wiki [org]. The same site gives a table for Voigtländer serials claiming that the serial 6 664 222 is associated with the year 1965, and that the serial block 9 999 999-10 000 150 began in the year 1971. The website cites Wilkinson, M, and C Glanfield. 2001. A Lens Collector's Vade Mecum, CD-rom Version 3F. Edited by A. N. Wright. Cornwall, UK: David Matthews Associates. Chapter 14, Page 6-9.

Is it possible that my copy of the Ultron 1.8/50 with serial starting 7245 is a Voigtländer one in spite of the Carl Zeiss branding? Is it correct that these Ultrons were produced by Voigtländer in Braunschweig?

Cheers.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
aqqabsm wrote:
Is it possible that my copy of the Ultron 1.8/50 with serial starting 7245 is a Voigtländer one in spite of the Carl Zeiss branding? Is it correct that these Ultrons were produced by Voigtländer in Braunschweig?


I don't know anything about the serial numbers, but according to the Voigtländer Report no.2 from Claus Prochnow (1st edition 2005) this lens was designed for and made by Voigtlaender/Braunschweig from 1968 until 1972 in both BM-Icarex and TM M42 versions. Nobody really knows why those lenses have been marked "Carl Zeiss" as the Voigtlaender company was owned already since 1956 by the Zeiss trust. The lens was designed by the independent design bureau of A. W. Tronnier who worked from 1944 until 1970 mainly for Voigtländer. Before WWII he used to work for Schneider/Kreuznach and invented the famous Xenon lens. In fact those lenses have nothing to do with Zeiss besides that Voigtlaender was owned by Zeiss until it was sold to Rollei.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome aqqabsm!!! Greenland, yes!


PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the added information which I think supports the contention that the serial numbers follow the Voigtländer scheme.

There was some uncertainty earlier in this thread on whether the lens was measured as resolving 160 lines or line pairs per millimetre. I have this evening in my quest to learn more about the Ultron discovered the following magazine quotation provided on Frank Mechelhoff's site Klassik Cameras.

Quote:
Norman Goldberg schreibt in Popular Photography Juli 1969:
"Chromatische Aberrationen so niedrig wie noch nie gesehen... Farbquerfehler nicht zu entdecken... Astigmatismus unmessbar... Bildpunkts-Verschiebung aufgrund von Restbeträgen sphärischer Aberration zwischen f/1.8-5.6 bloß von 0.05mm... koma-bedingtes Streulicht war vollständig verschwunden bei f/5.6... auf der optischen Bank zeigen sich sehr hohe Kontrast-Leistungen, zählen zu den höchsten in meiner Erfahrungs-Praxis. Die optimale Öffnung ist f/5.6, aber die Bildleistung bei f/2.8 ist gleich derjenigen der meisten anderen Objektive bei f/5.6. Bei f/4 übertrifft dies Objektiv die maximale Bildleistung von nahezu jedem anderen getesteten Objektiv dieses Typs. Die Bildleistung war bei unendlich besser als bei Nah-Entfernungen."
"Getestete Auflösung auf Platte 380 Linien pro Milimeter" (A. Tronnier jr.)


The URL to Mechelhoff's page on the Icarex system where this information was found is http://www.klassik-cameras.de/Icarex.html

The forum user `guardian` has a copy of this magazine on microfiche [see here] if the original language text is needed.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
aqqabsm wrote:
There was some uncertainty earlier in this thread on whether the lens was measured as resolving 160 lines or line pairs per millimetre. I have this evening in my quest to learn more about the Ultron discovered the following magazine quotation provided on Frank Mechelhoff's site Klassik Cameras.


Thanks, I know Mechelhoff's site very well. It's the best source for the Voigtländer story. Additionally I have all 3 books from Prochnow about all Voigtländer cameras and lenses ever produced. Prochnow worked in the development department of Rollei and when Voigtländer was taken over by Rollei he had access to all the original documentation from the very beginning until the sad end of Voigtländer and Rollei in the early 1980's.

I've found also the list of lens numbers / production years now in one of these books. Your lens is from 1969.

BTW, the 160 lp/mm was the first Ultron from the early 1950's and your Ultron would be 190 lp/mm (converted to pairs). That makes sense for me and I have no doubts that this is correct.

Cheers,


PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thomas thanks for the detailed and helpful response.

Are the first generation of Ultrons capable of being adapted to an M42 or other mount?

Do you have a date for a second generation with serial 73626**? Couldn't resist picking up a second one for use on the Spotmatic as it's the only lens I enjoy using now.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anyway, the Ultron 50/2 for prominent can really do good Laugh 1


#1


#2


#3


#4


#5


#6


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
aqqabsm wrote:
Thomas thanks for the detailed and helpful response.

Are the first generation of Ultrons capable of being adapted to an M42 or other mount?

Do you have a date for a second generation with serial 73626**? Couldn't resist picking up a second one for use on the Spotmatic as it's the only lens I enjoy using now.


Sorry for late reply. Was on vacation in Italy...

The first generation Ultron was made for the Prominent RF camera. There are to the best of my knowledge only adapters available for M39/LTM or Leica M and they are rather expensive (available e.g. from Kipon or Fotodiox). The focusing helicoid was part of the camera hence the adapter has to be rather sophisticated and must include the focusing mechanism.

Serial 7.362.6xx was made in 1970 in Braunschweig/Germany.

Cheers,


PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rick1779 wrote:
Anyway, the Ultron 50/2 for prominent can really do good


Indeed. Unfortunately rather expensive nowadays, particularly if you have to add the cost for the adapter as well....


PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
Rick1779 wrote:
Anyway, the Ultron 50/2 for prominent can really do good


Indeed. Unfortunately rather expensive nowadays, particularly if you have to add the cost for the adapter as well....


the lens itself can be found at less than 200 €, a good adapter is more or less 300€ (mine is fotodiox pro)


PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have read that the singapour planar Rollei HFT had 6 elements in 4 groups, not 7 elements.

When the lens was made by Voigtlander had 7 elements.

I do't know if it's true


PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
papasito wrote:
I have read that the singapour planar Rollei HFT had 6 elements in 4 groups, not 7 elements.

When the lens was made by Voigtlander had 7 elements.

I do't know if it's true


Not true. The Singapore version of the Planar is absolutely identical to the German version, irrespective of branding, i.e. Rollei Planar or Voigtlaender Ultron.
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