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Pentax Asahi Bellows-Takumar 100mm/F4
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject: Pentax Asahi Bellows-Takumar 100mm/F4 Reply with quote
Today I've tried first time my old Bellows-Takumar on my Ricoh GXR-M (Minolta Auto Bellows III and Manfrotto 055PRO tripod).

This preset aperture lens was produced betw. 1964 and 1971 without SMC coating and is a 5/3 construction. Otherwise it's identical to the newer SMC version. More specifications and pictures of the lens can be found here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/Bellows-Takumar-Super-Multi-Coated-Bellows-TAKUMAR-100mm-F4.html

The scale is almost 1:1 and as usual the pictures are RAW and converted/resized in LR6 with minor corrections.

The example pictures show the lens at different apertures.

F4:


F11:


F22:


IMHO not bad at all for such an old lens. At F11 it seems to be best and the CA's are well corrected (even WO).

Cheers,


PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 Like 1 nice!!


PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice lens.Like 1 small
I have the K mount version, which doesn't get used as much as it should. Embarassed


PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1


PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
True Heliar formula as used on many old large format cameras. Same formula as SMC 4/100 Macro-Takumar; without focusing helicals.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Same formula as SMC 4/100 Macro-Takumar; without focusing helicals.


Same is true for Pentax K, M and A versions of the 100mm/F4 macro lens. They all share the same design. I also have the M version with SMC coating myself and it's very similar in performance and of course, more convenient for outdoor shooting.
However, they all have max. magnification of only 0.5x without additional accessories; hence for higher magnifications the Bellows-Takumar seems to be the better solution.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
visualopsins wrote:
Same formula as SMC 4/100 Macro-Takumar; without focusing helicals.


Same is true for Pentax K, M and A versions of the 100mm/F4 macro lens. They all share the same design. I also have the M version with SMC coating myself and it's very similar in performance and of course, more convenient for outdoor shooting.
However, they all have max. magnification of only 0.5x without additional accessories; hence for higher magnifications the Bellows-Takumar seems to be the better solution.


On bellows can focus from infinity to 1:1 magnification; higher magnifications require more extension...also hiking through the woods with an extension ring that might be used seems easier than toting bellows -- better in that case. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
tb_a wrote:
visualopsins wrote:
Same formula as SMC 4/100 Macro-Takumar; without focusing helicals.


Same is true for Pentax K, M and A versions of the 100mm/F4 macro lens. They all share the same design. I also have the M version with SMC coating myself and it's very similar in performance and of course, more convenient for outdoor shooting.
However, they all have max. magnification of only 0.5x without additional accessories; hence for higher magnifications the Bellows-Takumar seems to be the better solution.


On bellows can focus from infinity to 1:1 magnification; higher magnifications require more extension...also hiking through the woods with an extension ring that might be used seems easier than toting bellows -- better in that case. Wink


Well, talking manual focus here, I simply prefer the luxury of a bellows when shooting at such high magnifications up to 1:1 (or even higher with additional extensions) as I find it due to the very shallow DOF very hard to focus correctly and almost impossible to do that freehand. IMHO bellows with built-in focus rail are best in this case.

If I want to shoot freehand 1:1 macro during hiking my equipment looks totally different: Sony A850 + Tamron AF 90/2.8 macro + Minolta R-1200 Ringflash. Then the success rate is almost at 100%. Here is an example picture just taken this minute with this combination at max. 1:1 magnification (F11):



For smaller magnifications manual focus and freehand also the Pentax macro lenses (I have both 50mm and 100mm) without extensions are more than good enough. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've not actually checked the maximum magnification my lens will reach on my bellows, but I think any of them will extend to more than 200mm (which would equate to 1:1)
One set is a double extension bellows & will definitely extend significantly further, probably reaching over 2.5x (with a very dim image).


PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you all for the compliments and contributions.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Magnification on fully extended Autobellows is 1.62x, according to the close-up data page 3-78 of Joseph D. Cooper's "The Pentax Manual" 1975. 1.69x when reversed.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Magnification on fully extended Autobellows is 1.62x, according to the close-up data page 3-78 of Joseph D. Cooper's "The Pentax Manual" 1975. 1.69x when reversed.


Interesting. Both of my bellows from Minolta and Nikon extend max. 200mm which would result in 2:1 (2x) magnification with a 100mm lens according to this calculator: http://extreme-macro.co.uk/bellows/#calculator and 4:1 with a 50mm lens.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thomas, the extension used by the macro calculator assumes the lens has a normal mount. You know, for this type of lens, infinity focus can be obtained with zero extension. For a short-mount lens like your Bellows Takumar, you need to take into account the "missing length" of the short mount. The procedure is, mount the lens on the bellows, focus to infinity and register the bellows extension. Then introduce in the calculator the effective extension, which is the difference between the registered and the real extension being used.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
visualopsins wrote:
Magnification on fully extended Autobellows is 1.62x, according to the close-up data page 3-78 of Joseph D. Cooper's "The Pentax Manual" 1975. 1.69x when reversed.


Interesting. Both of my bellows from Minolta and Nikon extend max. 200mm which would result in 2:1 (2x) magnification with a 100mm lens according to this calculator: http://extreme-macro.co.uk/bellows/#calculator and 4:1 with a 50mm lens.


Photograph a mm ruler to verify?


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gerald, thanks for the additional clarification.

Well, a photo of a ruler might finally proof the result of the calculater. However, have looked into the Pentax bellows manual and the maximum extension is only 170mm according specifications. That's apprx. consistent with the formula of the calculator of 1.7:1 and the information of the Pentax manual, hence the truth will be something betw. 1.6 to 2:1 also for my Minolta and Nikon bellows.

Finally, the possible magnifications on bellows are much higher than 1:1 (depending on the used lens) without any additional accessory. On the other hand the DOF is that shallow at such high magnifications that it's hardly of practical use for 3D objects and definitely impossible to do that freehand. Focus stacking might be the solution in that case.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you think DOF is poor using bellows, you should try a microscope!
Focus stacking was needed to get more than a fraction of a fly's ankle in focus, & I'm afraid the half dozen shots I combined weren't enough for a sharp final result.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
DConvert wrote:
If you think DOF is poor using bellows, you should try a microscope!
Focus stacking was needed to get more than a fraction of a fly's ankle in focus, & I'm afraid the half dozen shots I combined weren't enough for a sharp final result.


No, thank you. I'm well served with macro, I don't even have a microscope. Wink


PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cooper published tables to 28mm; on Auto Bellows magnifications from 1x to 4.8x, reversed 2.64x to 9.02x (!).

Stop down for more dof? Laughing At such high magnifications, there is little effect.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
At least one of the Pentax bellows models included a little metal ruler that showed the magnification ratio at different extensions. You'd clip it on top of the bellows and read the scale.

page 8 of the manual - http://www.cameramanuals.org/pentax_pdf/pentax_auto_bellows-a.pdf

I've got one here someplace but it was easier to find the manual than it was to find the actual item in my bin of "miscellaneous" camera gear Rolling Eyes
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