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Lenses - what to buy?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Lenses - what to buy? Reply with quote
I have a Minolta 35 Model IIB. The correct lens for that would be a Super Rokkor 5cm F1.8 but they are hella expensive. Currently I have an Industar-61L/D 55mm F2.8 but it's a simple Tessar so I'm not even interested to use it.

So I'm looking at something a bit cheaper for now.

Which would you prefer?

Super Rokkor 5cm F2
Tokyo Kogaku Topcor-S (Black) 5cm F2
Leitz Summar 5cm F2 (hazed all over the front, no multicoating - probably a bad choice?)
Jupiter-3 5cm F1.5
Tanaka Kogaku Tanar H.C 5cm F2
Leotax Leonon 5cm F2

The latter 2 having a lot of scratches on the glass. ^^
Is there anything I might have missed? Will the Jupiter-3 focus correctly on the rangefinder? Which of the above will have click stops? Or perhap it really is worth saving up double to triple the amount to buy a clean Super Rokkor 5cm F1.8? Let me know. Wink
I will of course, being using it on film. Cheers! Like 1 small


PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just picked up a Topcor-S so that's where my vote goes - after only oine day with it, I can see it is a great lens already.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
l9magen wrote:
I just picked up a Topcor-S so that's where my vote goes - after only oine day with it, I can see it is a great lens already.


Do you have any sample images? Wide aperture image quality F1.8 to F4 will be fairly important since I shoot low-speed film.


PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll try to get some uploaded tonight.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Topcor-S 50mm f2:

all colour images straight from the Sony A7r, shot in Sony's raw format (ARW). imported to Lightroom, unprocessed, then exported to jpg at 300 dpi resolution limited to the site's long-side limit of 1600.

I may try to post some B&W taken today on the Leica MM246 if I have time. Generally I like this lens a lot. Small, heavier than any other nifty-50 for its size (that I have now or have owned). Definite clicks into aperture position (I wish it was de-clicked), and it has smooth focus action that reminds me of my Takumars. And in that regard, the vivid (but not over-saturated) colours also remind me of the Takumars - is this a characteristic of Japanese lens design - anyone know about this?

EDIT: The most noticeable thing is the vignette at F2 - quite pronounced as I look at the B&W shots from today.

All shots handheld, and the replicating sets are shot in order F2 - F2.8 - F4, WB set to Auto. For the rest, stated apertures are F4 or wider, as requested.

#1 - F2, about 3.5m from focus point on rose figure in centre


#2 - F2.8


#3 - F4


#4 - F2, about 1.5m from the plaque, focus on the word "THE" in the sentence "..Canadian Institute for the Blind.."


#5 - F2.8


#6 - F4


#7 - F2, trying hard to focus on the little girl's eyes but she was not co-operating!


#8 - F4 I think


#9 - F2, with focus on the cigarette - note how the "Bose" text on the headphone is already getting blurry: thin DOF


#10 - F2.8, from about 5m or more. Rushed shot so focus only on the hand holding the phone


Lochlann


PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Lenses - what to buy? Reply with quote
Teemō wrote:
I have a Minolta 35 Model IIB. The correct lens for that would be a Super Rokkor 5cm F1.8 but they are hella expensive. Currently I have an Industar-61L/D 55mm F2.8 but it's a simple Tessar so I'm not even interested to use it.

So I'm looking at something a bit cheaper for now.

Which would you prefer?

Super Rokkor 5cm F2
Tokyo Kogaku Topcor-S (Black) 5cm F2
Leitz Summar 5cm F2 (hazed all over the front, no multicoating - probably a bad choice?)
Jupiter-3 5cm F1.5
Tanaka Kogaku Tanar H.C 5cm F2
Leotax Leonon 5cm F2


The latter 2 having a lot of scratches on the glass. ^^
Is there anything I might have missed? Will the Jupiter-3 focus correctly on the rangefinder? Which of the above will have click stops? Or perhap it really is worth saving up double to triple the amount to buy a clean Super Rokkor 5cm F1.8? Let me know. Wink
I will of course, being using it on film. Cheers! Like 1 small

I'm seriously impressed with the build of the Super Rokkors, I have the 5cm/2, 5cm/1.8, & 8.5cm/2.8, good IQ as well...
As a side note, I just repaired my 5cm/1.8, that I had messed up when I tried to unscrew a LTM to M mount adapter off it, and it became hard to focus, I assumed that I had bent the guide rail that keeps the optics from spinning when you turn the focus ring, I was sort of right, there is a rail/tab, and I did bend it, but it only stops the helicoid from turning too far and unscrewing the mount/helicoid off the rest of the body/optics, it is a weak point, I advise not using the focus ring to tighten/loosen the lens off the camera/adapter, the filter ring may be a better option(use caution, I am not 100% sure it's robust, but it is better than a small brass tab/rail.
I love my Topcor-S 5cm/2 silver
I also have a very nice Fujinon 5cm/2
I would also consider the Nikkor 50/2 and 50/1.4 for their close focus.
The Canon 50/1.4 or 50/1.2 are both great.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=95 has some nice threads, I bought my Fujinon from what I seen the the thread I seen there.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
l9magen wrote:
Topcor-S 50mm f2:

all colour images straight from the Sony A7r, shot in Sony's raw format (ARW). imported to Lightroom, unprocessed, then exported to jpg at 300 dpi resolution limited to the site's long-side limit of 1600.

I may try to post some B&W taken today on the Leica MM246 if I have time. Generally I like this lens a lot. Small, heavier than any other nifty-50 for its size (that I have now or have owned). Definite clicks into aperture position (I wish it was de-clicked), and it has smooth focus action that reminds me of my Takumars. And in that regard, the vivid (but not over-saturated) colours also remind me of the Takumars - is this a characteristic of Japanese lens design - anyone know about this?

EDIT: The most noticeable thing is the vignette at F2 - quite pronounced as I look at the B&W shots from today.

All shots handheld, and the replicating sets are shot in order F2 - F2.8 - F4, WB set to Auto. For the rest, stated apertures are F4 or wider, as requested.

Lochlann


Wow, thank you for this! A valuable reference for myself and others. I have to say, I found the bokeh at F2 to F2.8 quite dissapointing. Centre image is clearly good even from wide open but the real improvement is seen at F4 - it's like an entirely different lens. Rounded bokeh highlights, vignetting largely eliminated, field curvature (I think) is mostly diminished - the edge to edge image is really lifted at that point. I guess it is a very good performer at F8.

Do you own the earlier silver version, the later black version or something else of this lens? I think there are 4 types, and 2 optical calculations between them.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Lenses - what to buy? Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:

I'm seriously impressed with the build of the Super Rokkors, I have the 5cm/2, 5cm/1.8, & 8.5cm/2.8, good IQ as well...
As a side note, I just repaired my 5cm/1.8, that I had messed up when I tried to unscrew a LTM to M mount adapter off it, and it became hard to focus, I assumed that I had bent the guide rail that keeps the optics from spinning when you turn the focus ring, I was sort of right, there is a rail/tab, and I did bend it, but it only stops the helicoid from turning too far and unscrewing the mount/helicoid off the rest of the body/optics, it is a weak point, I advise not using the focus ring to tighten/loosen the lens off the camera/adapter, the filter ring may be a better option(use caution, I am not 100% sure it's robust, but it is better than a small brass tab/rail.
I love my Topcor-S 5cm/2 silver
I also have a very nice Fujinon 5cm/2
I would also consider the Nikkor 50/2 and 50/1.4 for their close focus.
The Canon 50/1.4 or 50/1.2 are both great.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=95 has some nice threads, I bought my Fujinon from what I seen the the thread I seen there.


I've seen a few threads there but not enough variety to make a conclusion.
That's a good experience about the durability of the Rokkor 5/1.8! I'm also overly cautious about that when I switch my Rokkor SLR lenses - the early ones were built with milled mounting grips so it was a consideration at one point. I'd guess the brass threads can be quite delicate - the focus ring and aperture rings are surprisingly flexible so I guess it would be possible to damage them over time.
Do you think the Canon 50/1.8 is a good lens? Particularly the model with black focusing ring which seems latest? I didn't list it because they're quite common and priced affordably - maybe not that sharp? Anyway I don't think they seem like cheap lenses at all, I just really wanted to avoid Canon and Nikon/Nippon because they are so common and I really would be doing a disservice to Minolta by mounting them on my 35 IIB. Laugh 1

I don't want to start a collection of m39 lenses/50's because I prefer SLR's and fixed lens rangefinders. Eventually I will get a Rokkor 5cm/1.8 because I collect Minolta gear, but there must be something nearly as good to use in the meantime. On the other hand, I keep reading that that lens is perhaps one of the best for m39... so maybe it is better to keep my money and I will own it sooner. I'm not sure - I would just like to put the camera into use as leaving them sit can allow the shutter to conform to the rollers, and then it will be a paperweight!

It's surprisingly difficult to find any of these lenses without scratches too. Those actually without haze, always have scratches! Rolling Eyes

Which of those Rokkors has clicked aperture stops, and do you think the 50/2 is worthwhile used at F2 or should I look for a 2.8 in better condition? I've already seen the bokeh of the 45 and while I like it, it's just not quite what I'm used to with the smooth SLR lenses.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Lenses - what to buy? Reply with quote
Teemō wrote:
Lightshow wrote:

I'm seriously impressed with the build of the Super Rokkors, I have the 5cm/2, 5cm/1.8, & 8.5cm/2.8, good IQ as well...
As a side note, I just repaired my 5cm/1.8, that I had messed up when I tried to unscrew a LTM to M mount adapter off it, and it became hard to focus, I assumed that I had bent the guide rail that keeps the optics from spinning when you turn the focus ring, I was sort of right, there is a rail/tab, and I did bend it, but it only stops the helicoid from turning too far and unscrewing the mount/helicoid off the rest of the body/optics, it is a weak point, I advise not using the focus ring to tighten/loosen the lens off the camera/adapter, the filter ring may be a better option(use caution, I am not 100% sure it's robust, but it is better than a small brass tab/rail.
I love my Topcor-S 5cm/2 silver
I also have a very nice Fujinon 5cm/2
I would also consider the Nikkor 50/2 and 50/1.4 for their close focus.
The Canon 50/1.4 or 50/1.2 are both great.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=95 has some nice threads, I bought my Fujinon from what I seen the the thread I seen there.


I've seen a few threads there but not enough variety to make a conclusion.
That's a good experience about the durability of the Rokkor 5/1.8! I'm also overly cautious about that when I switch my Rokkor SLR lenses - the early ones were built with milled mounting grips so it was a consideration at one point. I'd guess the brass threads can be quite delicate - the focus ring and aperture rings are surprisingly flexible so I guess it would be possible to damage them over time.
Do you think the Canon 50/1.8 is a good lens? Particularly the model with black focusing ring which seems latest? I didn't list it because they're quite common and priced affordably - maybe not that sharp? Anyway I don't think they seem like cheap lenses at all, I just really wanted to avoid Canon and Nikon/Nippon because they are so common and I really would be doing a disservice to Minolta by mounting them on my 35 IIB. Laugh 1

I have seen some good pictures from the Canon 50/1.8, but my silver version is just meh... The black 50/1.8 sounds good.
Quote:

I don't want to start a collection of m39 lenses/50's because I prefer SLR's and fixed lens rangefinders. Eventually I will get a Rokkor 5cm/1.8 because I collect Minolta gear, but there must be something nearly as good to use in the meantime.

The 45/2.8 is supposed to be really good, it's on my list to get, no click stops.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chiyoko-SUPER-ROKKOR-45mm-F2-8-L39mm-Leica-Mount-Lens-Super-Clean-Lens-Mint-Cond-/322484804615
Quote:

On the other hand, I keep reading that that lens is perhaps one of the best for m39... so maybe it is better to keep my money and I will own it sooner. I'm not sure - I would just like to put the camera into use as leaving them sit can allow the shutter to conform to the rollers, and then it will be a paperweight!

It's surprisingly difficult to find any of these lenses without scratches too. Those actually without haze, always have scratches! Rolling Eyes

Which of those Rokkors has clicked aperture stops,

Both 50's have Detent's at the f stops.
Quote:

and do you think the 50/2 is worthwhile used at F2

Yeah, it's quite good
Quote:

or should I look for a 2.8 in better condition? I've already seen the bokeh of the 45 and while I like it, it's just not quite what I'm used to with the smooth SLR lenses.


I missed the Yashica 50mm f1.8 in my list, I'd love to find one.
My Topcor-S 50/2
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/topcors502/
My Super Rokkor 50/2
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/chiyokosuperrokkor502/


An odd thing, they changed names at some point, my lenses are labeled:
Chiyoda Super Rokkor 50/1.8
Chiyoko Super Rokkor 50/2

Biggest bang for the buck is probably the Canon 50/1.4, it's fast, and sharp, and under $200.(not counting FSU lenses)


PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
1) Super Rokkor 5cm F2- This is a Summitar formula lens, very swirly Bokeh.

2) Tokyo Kogaku Topcor-S (Black) 5cm F2- Never used the F2, have the F1.5 lens. Would not recommend the F1.5 lens to other than a collector

3) Leitz Summar 5cm F2 (hazed all over the front, no multicoating - probably a bad choice?) - One with a clean front element is quite good, but very prone to flare. Would not recommend.

4) Jupiter-3 5cm F1.5 - 80% as manufactured Will not focus correctly without adjustment.


5) Tanaka Kogaku Tanar H.C 5cm F2- Just like a Nikkor 5cm F2, mine was not optimized for wide-open use. Uncommon compared to the Nikkor 5cm F2, you will pay more for it.

6) Leotax Leonon 5cm F2- Have never shot with one. The Simlar 5cm F1.5 came on my Leotax.

The Canon 50/1.4 is probably most like an SLR lens, but with all Canon lenses: beware of etched glass and coating damage.

For the Minolta- I would personally go with the 5cm F2.


PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The inexpensive black Canon 50mm f/1.8 is among my favorites and will give you most bang for the bucks even if it is not on your list.
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