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Aires Coral 4.5cm f1.5
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Aires Coral 4.5cm f1.5 Reply with quote
For me this is a "must have" lens for its unique bokeh. This was the fastest of the Aires Coral 4.5cm lenses (which included, to my knowledge, a f2.8, f1.9 and f1.8 version). It is actually an interchangeable lens head, ala the old Kodak Retina Reflex lenses. It is a sleeper, still available for several hundred dollars on eBay. It was one of several interchangeable lenses for the Aires V camera, which also included a 35mm f3.2 and a 100mm f3.5, neither of which is anywhere near as remarkable as this baby. The f1.9 version, also available on their fixed rangefinder cameras, is somewhat similar in terms of bokeh, but lacks the edginess of this lens. These are shot on a NEX aps-c sensor--it must be great of FF.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Unbelievable i opened my eyes looking like painting millions euro old painter's picture also focus point is like knife sharpness


PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting!

I actually have two of these, one badly needs a rear element re-cemented, plus the 35 and 100, and a couple of Aires 35V bodies.

The problem is the bodies, these are "under repair".

I did get some shots on one (on film of course) when one of the bodies was working, but I did not see the bokeh qualities.

How did you mount it, and on what? The aperture/focus mechanism came from one of the bodies?


PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What a beauty!!!!!!



PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like 1 Like 1 Like 1
Yep, would also like to know how it was converted...


PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:

Yep, would also like to know how it was converted...


Yes, me too.
Great pictures!


PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
exaklaus wrote:
kds315* wrote:

Yep, would also like to know how it was converted...


Yes, me too.
Great pictures!


The lens head contains only the iris, so no worry about jamming the shutter open. There is a guy who machines adapters for rare mounts (aires, fastax, noritar, etc.) to various bodies (m4/3, NEX, etc.) and sells them on eBay. I bought one of those. It's actually pretty clunky and I'm thinking of taking it apart and using the mount wedded to a normal focusing helicoid. I also noted that the rear part of the lens fits snugly into the center of a cheap plastic Chinese auto-extension tube for Nikon. I may also experiment with putting the lens in that and putting that on a Nikon F mount to m42 adapter and then that to a helicoid.

The present mount has a screw helicoid inside a locking ring, which is a stupid system. That being said, it works, and allows the lens to focus to about 20cm, which is enough for most purposes.

These Aires V cameras come up a couple of times a year on eBay. I bought a full system with the three lenses for $300, then a body plus the 1.5 for $270 because the lens was pristine. I've got a bunch of "bokeh" fifties, and none looks like the Aires. On FF it also swirls noticeably near the edge of the frame, which can be nice.

I also bought an Aires Viscount with the 4.5cm f1.9 and managed to convert that, but it was rather a pain. The f1.9 has got the same general look but lacks the bright edges on the OOF circles (ovals in the case of the Aires). It is a more pleasant bokeh, but lacks the impressionistic quality of the 1.5.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow this is something out of the ordinary!


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Aires Coral 4.5cm f1.5 Reply with quote
kymarto wrote:

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Just wonderful. Great spot.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Again great images! I like your love for special bokeh Smile


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great photos!!!

I found the eBay adapter seller but I have not found the Aires Coral 4.5cm 1.5 lens anywhere Sad


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Caution is required here -

These results aren't solely due to the lens.
The photographer is very, very capable in the bokeh style.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, I agree!

I have looked thru his web site and the photos are just amasing! Not only with one lens but with all lenses!!!

Hats off mr Marshall!


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i agree, too


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
luisalegria wrote:
Caution is required here -

These results aren't solely due to the lens.
The photographer is very, very capable in the bokeh style.


yes, indeed he is Luis! Wink Wink Wink


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you all for the kind words. I'm enjoying myself, despite having spent a good chunk of my savings on these lenses. I'm glad at least I find that I can use them Smile

As to the Aires lens--in the eight months I have only seen four come up for sale on eBay. Patience is required.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As it happens I have two of these 1.5/45 Aires Corals
One is in fine shape.
One unfortunately has bad lens separation in a rear group, and though I have no tried to fix it, strikes me as something that would need professional repair.

Also two non-functional Aires 35V bodies, the 100mm lens, and various other bits.
If anyone is willing to discuss further please contact me privately.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I bought the full 35-V kit (camera and three lenses, including the 1.5 normal lens) about a year ago. Poked at it recently, found that the focusing helicals in the 3.5cm and 10cm lenses are frozen. Not surprised, as Aires used grease that turns to green glue. (Same thing happened to my mother's Aires Viscount.)

But what I don't know is what's supposed to move relative to what. Well, I know that the tab that engages with the focusing ring needs to turn relative to the lens mount. But does the zebra striped ring on the 10cm lens rotate relative to the rest of the lens body? Does that ring rotate at the same rate as the tab? Does anything other than the silver tab on the 3.5cm lens move relative to the lens body?

Also, if anyone has opened up these lenses for cleaning and lubricating the helicals, hints would be most appreciated.

The helicals must be "interesting", as the lens mount moves forward from the body as you focus, so the helical needs to change the amount of motion to be correct for the focal lens (more motion for the 10cm, less motion for the 3.5cm).

Of course, this does motivate a test roll with the 4.5cm lens, since the body is working fine.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
luisalegria wrote:
Caution is required here -

These results aren't solely due to the lens.
The photographer is very, very capable in the bokeh style.


yes, indeed he is Luis! Wink Wink Wink


Here how pic from another user using the same lens looks like:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59224964@N05/albums/72157673145360013

Massively confirms what Luis had stated, Toby is really gifted squeezing bokeh out of lenses Smile


PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
John Shriver wrote:
I bought the full 35-V kit (camera and three lenses, including the 1.5 normal lens) about a year ago. Poked at it recently, found that the focusing helicals in the 3.5cm and 10cm lenses are frozen. Not surprised, as Aires used grease that turns to green glue. (Same thing happened to my mother's Aires Viscount.)

But what I don't know is what's supposed to move relative to what. Well, I know that the tab that engages with the focusing ring needs to turn relative to the lens mount. But does the zebra striped ring on the 10cm lens rotate relative to the rest of the lens body? Does that ring rotate at the same rate as the tab? Does anything other than the silver tab on the 3.5cm lens move relative to the lens body?

Also, if anyone has opened up these lenses for cleaning and lubricating the helicals, hints would be most appreciated.

The helicals must be "interesting", as the lens mount moves forward from the body as you focus, so the helical needs to change the amount of motion to be correct for the focal lens (more motion for the 10cm, less motion for the 3.5cm).

Of course, this does motivate a test roll with the 4.5cm lens, since the body is working fine.


Neither the 4.5cm nor the 35mm wide lens have focusing helicoids in the lens heads. They depend solely on the helicoid built into the fixed lens mount on the camera body (which also contains the shutter). The 100mm has a tab that is engaged on the fixed lens mount, so it does have a helicoid built in. That being said, if you mount these lenses either on the pre-made adapter available on eBay (he may have run out of adapters for the NEX), or you manage to affix one to any of the normal m42 helicoids available on eBay (should not be tremendously difficult), the frozen helicoid on the 100mm lens won't matter if you get one with enough extension range. That being said, I don't find the 100mm very interesting in terms of bokeh (although it isn't a bad lens). The 35mm is f3.2. It has a very nice rendering, but won't give you really notable bokeh except quite close up.

The lens head detached has a long slim back part that contains the rear elements (anyone remember the Topcon UV?), and it will fit with room to spare down into a normal m42 helicoid, and you can probably wrap it with some rubber packing and PVC tape to get a tight fit. In the next few days I can give a suggestion of which length helicoid would be most suitable. Truth be told, I am about to give up on the adapter I bought. It is slow and clunky, and it just doesn't focus close enough sometimes. When I add the minimum NEX extension tube, which is 10mm, then it is too close.

I'm back to Beijing tomorrow and I will experiment and give folks some practical suggestions.

Here is the one example of a shot with the 35mm Aires lens that I have. Not bad by any means but not crazy like the 1.5.

#2 and #3 are interesting. I bought an old Aires Viscount because I wanted to try the 4.5cm 1.9. It came with both wide and tele front conversion lenses. The wide is nothing special, but the tele is wild. Check it out. The lens doesn't fit on the 1.5, only the 1.9



Toby
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Crazy cool photos! Like Dog


PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
kds315* wrote:
luisalegria wrote:
Caution is required here -

These results aren't solely due to the lens.
The photographer is very, very capable in the bokeh style.


yes, indeed he is Luis! Wink Wink Wink


Here how pic from another user using the same lens looks like:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59224964@N05/albums/72157673145360013

Massively confirms what Luis had stated, Toby is really gifted squeezing bokeh out of lenses Smile


Some of those aren't bad

Well, it ain't brain surgery, but there are a few points to keep in mind (at least what I keep in mind). First I always shoot wide open. Second it is important to explore and get familiar with the "sweet spot" of each lens, which is at what focusing distance the background bokeh is neither too near the focal distance, so it only looks a bit smeary, or too far from the focal distance, at which point it becomes so blurry that any characteristic rendering disappears into the mush. Third is the lighting. You'll see that I mostly try to shoot against the light, so that edges are lit and the bokeh can show itself off to best effect.

Finally is intelligent but not overcooked post processing. I have to first highly recommend the plugin "Piccure +"--I bought it first for my normal lenses (it claims to turn a kit lens into a Zeiss Otus using "deconvolution technology.") I found it unconvincing and a bit artificial using my normal modern lenses, and "put it on the shelf". But it is wonderful on old lenses, as it really does help to create a sharp edge at the finest resolutions without artificial haloing.

Normally what I do is to open a raw image in ACR and do general chroma and luma adjustments, get rid of vignetting and CA, sometimes add a bit of clarity and dehaze, just to get it looking rich and pleasing. Many of these old lenses are less than stellar in terms of contrast and saturation. Then I run Piccure+. From there I use Topaz Detail, which is a superb sharpening program, which works at three levels--small, medium, and large detail. The magic here is generally in the medium. I add a bit of fine detail and fine detail boost, which is subtle, but a bit of medium and medium detail boost really brings out the character of the bokeh. I leave large alone, as I find it harsh and unpleasant.

Sometimes I go to Topaz Clarity, which adjusts contrast again at three levels, which is a lot more intuitive than trying to achieve the same thing in PS Curves, and contains a "Microcontrast" control which again can enhance the bokeh.

Usually from there back to ACR for final adjustments, but there is one more thing that can easily be too much, but which I love, and that is Topaz Simplify. Usually used for stupid "art"effects (oops, my biases are showing), it has a setting for Edge and Detail Boost that is brilliant. Too much is very artificial looking, but used tastefully it adds a crispness that these old lenses usually lack, and is especially useful for the really awful old lenses which have so much spherical aberration that they seem to render through vaseline.

That's my workflow. I'm not into all the arty-farty filters, although some people use them to great effect. I bought the whole Topaz suite at one point, but I only use what I've listed normally speaking. I really do like those few Topaz filters, and find them more than useful in giving me control that I don't find in any other PS features or other plugins. And Piccure+ has proven its worth using vintage lenses, although I never use it in my "normal" work.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for clarification Toby and for the details about your workflow! I had a stong feeling that "Clarity" and "Microcontrast" as well as "Deconvolution" have been at work, so I guess I was close. Excellent results you got
and not visibly overdone, as so many do!!


PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Even with your post processing skills which I think brings out structure in the bokeh (among other thigns) as I have done similar post processing to bring out the bokeh structure from my less odd lenses, what I really enjoy in your photos is how you mix colours, how you frame a photo, the composition, cokplementing structures in a door for ex with the structure in the bokeh.

I have a lot to learn!


PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kymarto wrote:
#2 and #3 are interesting. I bought an old Aires Viscount because I wanted to try the 4.5cm 1.9. It came with both wide and tele front conversion lenses. The wide is nothing special, but the tele is wild. Check it out. The lens doesn't fit on the 1.5, only the 1.9


Did you take those pictures with the 4.5cm 1.9 by mounting it on your NEX? From what I've read, unlike the Aires 35 V, the Viscount was not an interchangeable lens camera. Did you have any difficulty removing the 4.5cm 1.9 lens from the Viscount?

I've also been reading up on the tele and wide conversion lenses for the Viscount, and there appear to be several versions. There's an 80mm tele, a 90mm, and one that lists both 80mm and 90mm on it for converting different focal lengths. Which version created that crazy bokeh for you?

Thank you for exploring these cameras and lenses, and taking such wonderful pictures!
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